Punk actually disrupting the humdrum locker room harmony?

[indyfan]

whos Rich Fan?

[DougN]

They weren't trying to get in the way of NJPW's USA expansion plans, which AEW very clearly was.

Not what you originally said, but sure, let's move the goal posts. Let's ignore the fact that NJPW had no American rights to any of the talent, even as they tried to do USA expansion plans. The bottom line is that their contracts expired and they were free to go elsewhere.

What's really funny here is that NJPW themselves admitted in 2016 that they wanted to move into the US with AJ and the Good Brothers as the core. But AJ went to WWE. So again, it's a double-standard because you personally dislike The Elite.

AJ Styles, The Good Brothers, and Nakamura was a much bigger loss for New Japan than Kenny Omega and The Young Bucks. They lost their top gaijin AND one of their four aces in one fell swoop. It would have been like if Omega took Naito or Tanahashi with him. And Nakamura has been outright in saying that AJ helped him in negotiations with WWE. So where's the outrage there?

As for the "locker room" stuff you're posting about, it's less about the locker room and more about the perceived young talent not seeking out veterans for advice. And that's already been touched upon -- some guys do (Hobbs, Jungle Boy, Jade, Garcia), and some guys don't (Darby, Sammy, Sabian). But the problem is that a lot of the people that Mark Henry and Billy Gunn are talking about are people who shouldn't really be getting advice anyway. Christian specifically talked about how he had to stop himself from advising some people there because they had careers before they got there and weren't just a rookie.

But you're posting that to slam Hangman Page and therefore The Elite because again, you hate The Elite. So let's address it. The Hangman Page "drama" you posted about seems to be centered around him not taking advice from Punk, who then had a hissy fit. Which is BEYOND rich considering how Punk handled himself in OVW, WWECW, and then the main roster. Even if you ignore the whole saga of Tony Atlas which was predicated on other OVW coaches not liking Punk because he didn't listen to them, you've got Edge, Jericho, Triple H, and Undertaker who have all stated that Punk outright didn't listen to their advice.

So you're clutching your pearls over a story about Hangman not taking advice from CM Punk, who famously made it without taking advice from people and even revels in that fact in shoot interviews.

This whole thing is stupid. You've been gleeful about this drama since it started because it paints The Elite in a bad light. Get rid of your hate boner and maybe we can actually talk about the situation. And sure, The Elite come off bad here too, storming the locker room as actual EVPs. But to just ignore Punk's bullshit is just cherry-picking your outrage on a bad situation.

https://twitter.com/rich_fann/status/15 ... ad9bTanQ7w

One, who the hell is that?

Two, that's not really the point about anything here. You're just picking what to respond and listen to that fits your "lulz Elite are not Elite" wish.

[supersonic]

Someone isn't tuned in as much as he should be into the Torch, POST, etc. worlds as he should be, I see.

Does Phil deserve to be vilified in any way for this? Yes, but not for the reasons most humans give a shit about that keep weighing in on this.

[DougN]

That's not the flex you think it is when the Torch is regarded as extremely low, especially when it comes to AEW news.

Punk is being vilified because he literally started all with his antics at the press conference. Tony is being vilified for just letting it happen and being a coward. The Elite is even being vilified because hey, as EVPs, maybe you not storm someone's locker room?

No one looks good in this situation, but Punk is being vilified because he's literally gone against the image he purports himself to be. He sat there big-timing them when he used to rail against people doing that. He sat there and insulted people not taking advice, when he said stars shouldn't have to years ago. He even sat there and tried to say that he and Colt weren't friends when the recorded the Art Of Wrestling. Sure, buddy.

You're just mad because people aren't burning effigies of The Elite in the street. We get it. You hate them. You'll pull anything out of the hat to try and prove they suck, even if it completely contradicts the point you just made.

[supersonic]

I'm sorry that Keller isn't gonna allow Khan, the Bucks, and Omega to compromise his coverage like the majority of the other big names in the wrestling media.

Only Meltzer masturbators would view the Torch as low when it was able to sign away respected minds for the business such as of Todd Martin and Alan4L, and took swift action to fuck off Bruce Mitchell for his shitty column about Brodie Lee's cause of death. (That Meltzer thought it was a good idea to then bring Mitchell - who has apparently yet to completely atone for his behavior - on after all that Huber bullshit seems to have been forgotten/condoned by his said masturbators.)

Meltzer isn't some above-reproach, highly-diplomatic and unbiased gold standard of media. He's just the pro wrestling media's version of Bill Simmons.

https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/stat ... 0464625670
https://twitter.com/davemeltzerWON/stat ... 3549456384

Punk injury, believed to be from the tope, is serious. Rumors from Sunday but he hadn't confirmed them but it's been confirmed to me no matter what happens discipline-wise that the title situation has to be changed and addressed tonight.

Just to make it clear, Punk is home in Chicago, not in Buffalo.

https://www.postwrestling.com/2022/09/0 ... r-all-out/

Sunday’s backstage incident following AEW’s All Out event is expected to result in multiple suspensions and possible departures.

Justin Barrasso of SI.com is reporting that Sunday’s incident following CM Punk’s media availability after All Out is going to lead to a third-party investigation and is expected to include suspensions for Kenny Omega, The Young Bucks, head of talent relations Christopher Daniels, producer Pat Buck, Michael Nakazawa, and Brandon Cutler.

The report also states that CM Punk and producer Ace Steel with either be included among the suspensions or no longer be with the company before the end of the day.

The news of a potential exit by CM Punk from the company was circulating on Tuesday but has not been confirmed yet. Barrasso reports that:

"Punk met with Khan on Tuesday, so the two had an opportunity to discuss how that exit could be handled."

After Punk’s comments at Sunday’s press conference, a confrontation occurred with reports from Fightful Select, Wrestling Observer, and Steven Muehlhausen of DAZN piecing together that Punk made contact punching Matt Jackson, Ace Steel through a chair that hit Nick Jackson in the eye, and Steel bit Kenny Omega. It was also noted that Steel’s wife was present and had a broken foot. The instigators of the situation have been disputed and this is a key point as each side is going to have justifications for their actions.

Hangman Page is not involved as SI.com noted that he had left the building by the time everything went down.

https://twitter.com/WrestlingNewsAV/sta ... 8734390274
https://twitter.com/WrestlingNewsAV/sta ... 3524400129
https://twitter.com/WrestlingNewsAV/sta ... 9710354435

The Wrestling News can report that Megha Parekh, AEW’s Chief Legal Officer and EVP, was present for a portion of the CM Punk / Elite locker room altercation.

The Wrestling News can report that Megha Parekh was seen engaging in conversation with the Bucks shortly before they approached CM Punk’s locker room, and was seen leaving the room with CM Punk’s dog, seemingly taking him to safety.

The Wrestling News can report that Christopher Daniels, AEW Manager of Talent Relations, was with The Elite when they entered CM Punk's locker room.

Good on Parekh for thinking about the only truly innocent party in all of this (the dog), and while I'm 100% tolerant of Phil putting the company bullshit on public blast, fuck him for bringing Larry there when he it's pretty clear he knew damn well he was gonna be stoking flames and potentially create a very hostile environment. That dog should've never been in the building. I know that if it was me in Phil's position and I did that, the brawling wouldn't have ended at the arena - my girlfriend would've assaulted the shit outta me as soon as I walked in for endangering an animal like that, and rightfully so.

[DougN]

"Compromise coverage." Jesus Christ dude. This is ridiculous. Now you're going to swing for the "Meltzer shills for AEW" fence when Meltzer has legit been sounding the alarm on AEW since January.

You act like Mitchell posted his column and Keller quickly yeeted him. Not the case at all. Keller and Meltzer are on the complete same level when it comes to Mitchell -- both would have kept up the thing they did had the staff around them not revolted. It was a low point for both people, but also completely irrelevant to this conversation. Keller has a notoriously low amount of connections in the business, something he's readily admitted when compared to Meltzer, SRS, and Mike Johnson.

It's funny you go to attacking Meltzer though and avoid PWInsider, who is well known to be the only outlet Punk will talk to. And even PWInsider is saying everyone sucks and Punk is the worst here.

Calling Meltzer Bill Simmons is completely laughable. If you got problems with Meltzer, that's fine, but the dude has a legit resume that far extends him giving positive coverage the last five years to people you hate.

[DougN]

PWTorch is the best because they don't have any sources in AEW. That's legit basically the take you just committed to. That's how blind your hatred has made you.

And there's a legit difference between not liking something and having this raging fire of hate inside you that makes moments like this turn into Christmas Day for you.

[supersonic]

Here's a good chunk of Rich Fann's very measured observation of how this was really a year in the making. The full podcast is here - https://vip.pwtorch.com/2022/09/05/vip- ... er-poll-o/

Everyone's talking about this as if this was return fire for just what Hangman did. It isn't just Hangman Page. It's also the Young Bucks.

When you look at Being the Elite when CM Punk debuted, it was not lost on me then, and it isn't lost on me now that they did a little scene where Kenny Omega and the Bucks are watching him in the back... and they're rolling their eyes... telling someone in the back to cut the time down because this is just a waste of their show.

That sort of stuff shouldn't be in your shoulder content, and now you fast forward and you see it clearly, people weren't joking. So you have these wrestlers getting into these arguments... a physical altercation... as much as people make jokes about Mickey Gall with CM Punk, this is still a guy who trained in MMA fighting against dudes who he said were kids from Reseda that still don't know how the world works...

It was not a surprise to me that CM Punk could knock someone out... especially given how he grew up... it's generational... it was he hit a Buck and a Buck went down and a chair then was thrown... [they approached him] with his dog [present] and then Ace Steel. This is also a John Wick situation where you shouldn't have messed with the man with his dog in the area. He's already on edge and now you're coming to him... if you haven't grown up in the [same environment as CM Punk], you're not ready for people like CM Punk, you're definitely not ready for someone like a Terry Funk... you're definitely not ready for a Jericho if you get on Jericho's wrong side... [Punk] is gonna bark back, he's gonna fight back, and it's not gonna go the way as you see the way you think it will.

Now the issue becomes for Tony [Khan] [reference made to last month's AEW talent Google searches stats posted by Wrestlenomics]... I think [Punk] is calling [Hangman] "emptyheaded" because he's letting the Bucks drag him by the nose in this and he gets to take the bullets that those guys should...

Now you have employees, management, and a key staff member in a fracas. This is an HR nightmare... It is a woeful neglect to maintain order in your workplace. This is where... someone could sue and say they're in an unsafe work environment...

[Khan] needs an Undertaker... You need that person that's the heavy that you can trust in that locker room... Tony needs a wrestler that's established enough that both the younger generation that isn't WWE wrestlers and the older generation would take their feedback as accepted... I feel like this is a middle-management issue as much as it is management because there are levers and pullies that should've been done well before it gone to this... There should've been canaries in the coal mine to stop this...

AEW needs to reckon the fact that they are not Olive Garden. Every time you see Olive Garden in a commercial... they say "when you're here, you're family." This is not family, this is a business. When you're a business and you're in Chicago where your business's merchandise is based, there's no reason you shouldn't have every merch stand filled with your wrestlers that are on the card, their merchandise, instead of saying "oh just order it and it'll show up in 3 weeks." When you're a business, you do not have to worry about when you go out and you do a presser if the media asks too hard a question and maybe they should just stay to kayfabe... When you're a business and you're not family, when you have stuff like this go on, you talk about the value of the guy who brought you $2 million gates versus the guys who are bringing you headaches... When you're a business and your staff members, your subordinates, are constantly undermining you in public, you need to stop the scrum and tell them to get their crap together...

People are at their wits end, so there needs to be another meeting... It should be "what's the issues, air this crap out right now, let's move forward..." That was the biggest thing missing from that meeting 2 weeks ago, the elephant in the room was Scott Colton. CM Punk came out during the first part of the scrum and said "here's what my relationship with Scott Colton is, here are the emails, here's why I stopped this lawsuit..." And that definitively shut down the "CM Punk tried to get this guy fired" [narrative] and it also put a light on [the gossip]...

I'd also add... CM Punk came out there and said "thanks for sticking with us for the 62-hour show..." It's one thing for us to say it and Tony to push back... it's another thing for the guy who just won in your main event to say it... When [Punk] is fed up... once you hit that line, it doesn't matter, he's just gonna keep going... He's tired, he's hungry, blood sugar's down, [he's eating muffins...]

There's ripple effects from this too... The passive-aggressive went worldwide last night [referencing Kevin Steen's photo of the Steve Austin match]... CM Punk is not a turn the other cheek type of guy... He's sick of this crap...

[Khan] pays a lot of people who either are gonna be stealing money going forward or really have to examine what they see as effective leadership... Clearly, there is a failure of leadership with the executive vice presidents...

Imagine you got from a workplace where your vice president of talent had the ear of the boss and was constantly trying to undermine you... Now you get to this new job after having survived that old job and there's two people doing the exact same thing and they're related, and then there's a third guy, and they're all trying to do the same thing. But this time, they're not married to the boss. They just happen to be friends better than you with the boss. But you have the advantage. You were the guy the boss grew up watching and enjoying wrestling...

I want folks to understand this. I saw [an AEW fan] post on Twitter that this is a dark day for them because they wanted a promotion with the Bucks and Kenny Omega and nowthey feel like that's getting taken away from them. I don't mean to be crass, but I'm gonna be crass. Boo frickin' hoo. This is a business. CM Punk, Bryan Danielson, Claudio Castagnoli... all these guys when they were in Ring of Honor, Gabe Sapolsky wasn't hugging them and telling them "you're my bright shining star." They were fighting each other and absolutely murdering each other to get to the top of the card. That sort of work ethic, that sort of mindset... don't think those of guys as WWE wrestlers... these are Ring of Honor wrestlers from OG Ring of Honor. These are indy of indy guys... When Punk says "I don't respect Reseda," don't take it as a shot to PWG itself. Take it as a shot that "you didn't have to do what I did even though your road may have been hard." Because the Bucks still have the story of not being able to afford their Chik-Fil-A at the airport... doing the DIY stuff... but they didn't have to deal with Bill DeMott. They didn't have to deal with generational wrestler becoming the boss and determining that you're skinny-fat and you're not good enough...

There is levels to both sides of this. I truly get for the fans that say they wanted this promotion where the Bucks and Kenny Omega change the world and everyone likes everyone. That has never been pro wrestling...

I think the Bucks and Kenny need to reckon with - CM Punk is the nicest version of how this could've gone down if I'm absolutely honest about this. As much as people are seeing CM Punk as the bad guy and saying he's killing the vibe of the happy promotion, he's bringing a business to a playground. When he says they're children, some of that perjorative is in terms of how they're behaving, but it's also in terms of how they're operating professionally... Take the [advice] wherever it comes from and if it can make you better, use it...

If you were the [fans] who came in with the first iteration, the four EVPs, this is not good for you. You feel like the people who helped bring you the wrestling - even though [Khan]... is more responsible... I feel like Kenny and the Bucks were part of something that was very special to people. It's probably very stressful [for those fans...] On the other side, the folks who came in with that second wave [of WWE/ROH veterans], this is "man, they may side a little bit more with them.

[indyfan]

lol this guy really thinks Punk is bad ass lol

[DougN]

This is the best comedy of the year. "Measured observation" from a dude ignoring all the actual reporting on the issue, reporting that has very clearly not put the blame solely on Punk or The Elite yet. Also relies on a skit from a satirical YouTube show (that wasn't even the only show to do the same thing that week) and makes an absurd comparison to John Wick.

You would of course think this is measured considering it wasn't Jim Cornette ranting while eating Wendy's cheeseburgers.

Cool post, Rick.

[Montana]

Here’s my speculation on the whole Punk/Elite “melee”.

So we all saw what punk said at the press conference.

Punk goes back to his locker room and locks his door with ace , ace’s wife and punks dog.

Bucks and Kenny look for CM punk, as punk requested to take up any issues with him. He doesn’t unlock the door. They break it down/get in someway.

Bucks/Kenny and Punk start a shouting match, leads to Punk throwing the first punch. Bucks and Kenny (maybe more) proceed to beat down punk/ace. It’s so bad, ace is biting people. It’s like a legit melee. gets broken up eventually…. Punks threatening to sue AEW & Bucks/Omega. I imagine bucks and Kenny are also going to counter sue.

This isn’t going to be resolved quickly… but the full story will get out. Again, just my speculation, but kinda how I’m piecing this all together.

[supersonic]

It's said that a picture is a worth a thousand words, so here are figuratively 2,000 from me in response to these fucking flames being stoked yet again (which btw I ultimately see as a total nothing burger.)

[supersonic]

https://twitter.com/BackupHangman/statu ... 1094832129

The Punk return promo was incredible.

He gave viewers the CM Punk they expected in the ESPN interview. Angry, provocative, biting. Dancing around the elephant in the room would’ve been insulting so he faced it head on and spoke his truth, irrespective of face/heel alignment.

The first return promo was a man with a second chance at wrestling. This is him pointing middle fingers at everyone, including AEW as a whole, and structurally, the dog collar tidbit was brilliant. It gives us a clear endpoint to this show’s first story arc, and MJF’s arrival into this is gonna be pivotal. CM Punk is SPECIAL BECAUSE HE IS A DISRUPTOR. The lines are extremely blurred in a way that’s meant to evoke intense feeling of some kind, and your head is on a swivel because there’s almost a feeling that he’s going off the rails live on TV.

In many ways, this is why I appreciate Punk. The business is in theory more talented than ever, but the knowledge that we’re watching a cohesive and cooperative effort from individuals in on the act has led to a really boring and sanitized televised circlejerk of friends popping each other and the audiences. It’s a sandbox, a treehouse. Nobody believes anything anymore. It’s done to be fun, and that’s great, but as Dusty once said, “this great sport is built on emotion”, and i feel more, when it’s legitimately real.

This is the closest approximation to Brian Pillman. It’s not my call, but should the Elite agree to work Punk, it would result in the greatest feud in the history of wrestling, rife with ardent fan passion on both sides. I loved the promo.

Additionally, with one speech, I think CM Punk expanded a new section of the AEW fanbase that culturally and philosophically is opposed to the traditional Elite crowd. Results in the brand vs brand fan culture WWE chased for 20 years with RAW vs Smackdown.

[roacheyyy]

Our lord and saviour is back