NJPW Thread

[BurningHammer]

Can I ask when you started watching New Japan Wilson? I want to say this current New Japan isn’t Bobb Sapp, Brock Lesner bad but you can tell a lot of these guys aren’t at the level they have been in the past, certain guys just aren’t clicking like Jay White even if he has improved a tone in the ring. I just look at it when you had previous G1’s that made Karl Anderson, Goto, Tanahashi, Nakamura, etc I am just not seeing that level. It feels like I’ve seen it a millions times before compared to the last few years especially.

I'd drop in ultra casually when they started doing their first Wrestle Kingdoms, cherry-pick matches when it was getting high praise at the kickstart of the Bushiroad era, then finally joined full-steam during the NJPW World launch. Not every G1 needs to cement a new top star. It was that risk-taking that ultimately backfired on babyface Naito. I know Moxley and KENTA don't seem like them building new stars, especially in a place like New Japan, but listen to the commentary when either of them are on screen. They are being reconfigured immensely and made their own in this promotion. I would agree that Jay White hasn't been clicking--some part of it his own and some part of it him being put in a role that plays against his strengths--but Juice is probably right now the closest he's been to Anderson. There are less concentrated pushes this year because there are so many stars, and so many that are below 40 this year. This is probably the youngest median age G1 in some time.

We're not seeing that many breakout stars this year, but the tournament has been made interesting by all the misdirections made in Moxley, KENTA, and Okada being booked so strong in the start and by imperiling Naito and Jay White.

I guess it's mainly because I'm not feeling this Moxeley or Kenta stuff at all. Everything else just feels there without real any surprises or anything that really grabs me. Also Juice is putting on knowhere near the quality of match that Anderson had for those couple of years.

[cgstong]

American independent legend Amazing Red joins CHAOS’ YOH and BUSHI from Los Ingobernables De Japon in the SUPER J-CUP 2019 lineup.

Amazing Red will make his first appearance for NJPW in the Super J-Cup. A 21-year veteran of the global wrestling scene, Red found a huge fanbase in the early years of Ring of Honor. Forming a tag team with AJ Styles, he won the ROH World Tag Team Championships in 2003, one of 23 championships attained in a decorated career. Red’s innovative and high-flying style inspired a generation of junior heavyweights in the United States and beyond.

YOH is making his first Super J-Cup appearance. He is a three-time IWGP Junior Heavyweight Tag Team Champion with RPG3K partner SHO, who is also part of the tournament.

BUSHI entered the 2016 Super J-Cup as a wild card participant, but lost to eventual finalist Yoshinobu Kanemaru. He has held the NEVER Openweight Six Man Tag Team Championships three times and is also a former IWGP Junior Heavyweight Tag Team and singles champion.

SUPER J-CUP 2019 PARTICIPANTS:



Amazing Red

YOH

BUSHI

Caristico

Ryusuke Taguchi

Taiji Ishimori

SHO

Dragon Lee

TJP



(Producer Jyushin Thunder Liger will be in action in all three events but is not competing in the tournament.)

[Wavelet Transform]

Can I ask when you started watching New Japan Wilson? I want to say this current New Japan isn’t Bobb Sapp, Brock Lesner bad but you can tell a lot of these guys aren’t at the level they have been in the past, certain guys just aren’t clicking like Jay White even if he has improved a tone in the ring. I just look at it when you had previous G1’s that made Karl Anderson, Goto, Tanahashi, Nakamura, etc I am just not seeing that level. It feels like I’ve seen it a millions times before compared to the last few years especially.

I'd drop in ultra casually when they started doing their first Wrestle Kingdoms, cherry-pick matches when it was getting high praise at the kickstart of the Bushiroad era, then finally joined full-steam during the NJPW World launch. Not every G1 needs to cement a new top star. It was that risk-taking that ultimately backfired on babyface Naito. I know Moxley and KENTA don't seem like them building new stars, especially in a place like New Japan, but listen to the commentary when either of them are on screen. They are being reconfigured immensely and made their own in this promotion. I would agree that Jay White hasn't been clicking--some part of it his own and some part of it him being put in a role that plays against his strengths--but Juice is probably right now the closest he's been to Anderson. There are less concentrated pushes this year because there are so many stars, and so many that are below 40 this year. This is probably the youngest median age G1 in some time.

We're not seeing that many breakout stars this year, but the tournament has been made interesting by all the misdirections made in Moxley, KENTA, and Okada being booked so strong in the start and by imperiling Naito and Jay White.

I guess it's mainly because I'm not feeling this Moxeley or Kenta stuff at all. Everything else just feels there without real any surprises or anything that really grabs me. Also Juice is putting on knowhere near the quality of match that Anderson had for those couple of years.

I've had a similar experience to Wilson w/ discovering and getting deep into NJPW the last 2.5 years. I was hugely invested in last year's G1, but I completely agree w/ BurningHammer about both this year's G1 and fatigue with the product in general. Omega was HUGE loss for the company. His matches felt like something truly special last year and it's a gaping hole in the product for me. Sadly, that's not being made up for w/ AEW, as I feel like the freedom he has there is allowing him to embrace some of his worst tendencies. I'm also completely over Okada beating everyone and the Omega-induced reluctance to push foreign talent. Wish they'd give Ospreay and Ishii more wins; both are having incredible tournaments but it feels like they're clearly a level beneath the big guns (Naito, Tana, Okada). I think the closing stretch of this G1 will be fun, but Okada and Moxley running roughshod on their respective blocks was really off-putting to me, especially w/ the knowledge that Moxley's likely gone for good post-G1.

[BurningHammer]

I'd drop in ultra casually when they started doing their first Wrestle Kingdoms, cherry-pick matches when it was getting high praise at the kickstart of the Bushiroad era, then finally joined full-steam during the NJPW World launch. Not every G1 needs to cement a new top star. It was that risk-taking that ultimately backfired on babyface Naito. I know Moxley and KENTA don't seem like them building new stars, especially in a place like New Japan, but listen to the commentary when either of them are on screen. They are being reconfigured immensely and made their own in this promotion. I would agree that Jay White hasn't been clicking--some part of it his own and some part of it him being put in a role that plays against his strengths--but Juice is probably right now the closest he's been to Anderson. There are less concentrated pushes this year because there are so many stars, and so many that are below 40 this year. This is probably the youngest median age G1 in some time.

We're not seeing that many breakout stars this year, but the tournament has been made interesting by all the misdirections made in Moxley, KENTA, and Okada being booked so strong in the start and by imperiling Naito and Jay White.

I guess it's mainly because I'm not feeling this Moxeley or Kenta stuff at all. Everything else just feels there without real any surprises or anything that really grabs me. Also Juice is putting on knowhere near the quality of match that Anderson had for those couple of years.

I've had a similar experience to Wilson w/ discovering and getting deep into NJPW the last 2.5 years. I was hugely invested in last year's G1, but I completely agree w/ BurningHammer about both this year's G1 and fatigue with the product in general. Omega was HUGE loss for the company. His matches felt like something truly special last year and it's a gaping hole in the product for me. Sadly, that's not being made up for w/ AEW, as I feel like the freedom he has there is allowing him to embrace some of his worst tendencies. I'm also completely over Okada beating everyone and the Omega-induced reluctance to push foreign talent. Wish they'd give Ospreay and Ishii more wins; both are having incredible tournaments but it feels like they're clearly a level beneath the big guns (Naito, Tana, Okada). I think the closing stretch of this G1 will be fun, but Okada and Moxley running roughshod on their respective blocks was really off-putting to me, especially w/ the knowledge that Moxley's likely gone for good post-G1.

I think when you make Omega such a key part of your programming you are always going to feel it, especially when you have possibly overbooked previous talent that could have taken over or choosing someone that probably wasn't ready for it in White. I think the main thing for me was that I always watched NJPW for because it was a japanese promotion with talent that I didn't see on regular basis or even when I did wasn't that meaningful in WCW, ala Nagata. Previously they could always find a way to create new stars, different guys that would develop into something the crowd really connected too. I mean where is the next 'Liger' not the gimmick but the man the Japanese fans adored, same for Muta, Choso, Tenzan, Hase, Kushida, Choshu, Okada, Tanahashi the list goes on. Instead we are getting guys constantly imported in from other companies or now a stupidly high level of gajin guys. It is very much a different to one that I finally came back to in 2013, I guess after watching it on off for 23 years I've seen a lot better as well as a lot worse I'm just really not feeling it.

[Wilson]

I think a lot of the talent now that are getting what I'll call soft pushes (as in "it's clear that the company knows that the crowd is invested in them, but they are reluctant to make them a main title holder") are now adored by Japanese fans, even if they're non-NJPW or non-Japanese. Talents like SANADA, EVIL, Ospreay, Hiromu, and Juice are young and ultra popular--who knows what they're legacy will be in fifteen years. And guys like Shingo, KENTA, and Moxley are basically can't-miss free agents (and from a fan perspective, them landing as immediate stars is a fresh departure from NJPW's notorious slow-build development style).

I definitely get how it can feel too slow or how its own top stars feel like they're stultifying the main event scene because of how established they are, but New Japan still to me feels like, and maybe now more than ever, they set their talent to be the best version of themselves during concentrated events that makes both the talent and even a specific time feel special. It is very difficult for me to talk about deep flaws in their booking philosophy when I saw Ibushi/Tanahashi, SANADA/Okada, and Naito/Shingo become some of my favorite matches over the course of back-to-back nights.

[Wavelet Transform]

I think a lot of the talent now that are getting what I'll call soft pushes (as in "it's clear that the company knows that the crowd is invested in them, but they are reluctant to make them a main title holder") are now adored by Japanese fans, even if they're non-NJPW or non-Japanese. Talents like SANADA, EVIL, Ospreay, Hiromu, and Juice are young and ultra popular--who knows what they're legacy will be in fifteen years. And guys like Shingo, KENTA, and Moxley are basically can't-miss free agents (and from a fan perspective, them landing as immediate stars is a fresh departure from NJPW's notorious slow-build development style).

I definitely get how it can feel too slow or how its own top stars feel like they're stultifying the main event scene because of how established they are, but New Japan still to me feels like, and maybe now more than ever, they set their talent to be the best version of themselves during concentrated events that makes both the talent and even a specific time feel special. It is very difficult for me to talk about deep flaws in their booking philosophy when I saw Ibushi/Tanahashi, SANADA/Okada, and Naito/Shingo become some of my favorite matches over the course of back-to-back nights.

It's the "soft push" that is a major source of frustration with the current product for me. Sanada/Okada was truly fantastic, one of the best matches I've seen in a long time, NJPW or otherwise. That said, it's patently obvious that Sanada will lose the follow-up encounter when the belt is actually on the line. The inability to reward the guys like Sanada, Ishii, and even Ibushi to an extent, that are absolutely killing it every night with something more than they currently have is a major issue. They seem too dead set on this "Okada's going to break every record" path and it really dulls my interest in the main event scene.

[famicommander]

The G1 has been good but I'm still way behind. There's just too much to keep up with; I'm skipping every non-tournament match and I'm still way behind.

[Lynx]

Here is the list of guys that I think are currently killing it in G1: Evil, Sanada, Ishii, Goto, Shingo, Ospreay. Then you have guys who are their top stars regardless if they are killing it today or not: Okada, Naito, White*, Tanahashi, Ibushi. Then you have hot new acquisitions like Moxley and KENTA.

How do you reward everyone without reward itself becoming meaningless? RoH has a problem with very few wrestlers being credible main eventers, but NJPW has really more options than they can use. On the positive side it makes them pretty much immune to raiding. To seriously harm their business in Japan you'd probably have to sign 5-10 guys.

*I don't really understand their booking choices with White. He had great counters-based singles matches from WK till G1 started. But now his every match is about Gedo's interference and low blows. Just let him work his usual style and counter everyone into oblivion.

[ICHIFUJI]

Jay White is youngest of top guys so put old man as manager is not bad idea.
Even we don't need deteriorate 30year career men.

[BurningHammer]

The last two nights in Osaka have been fantastic and what I have been needing, apart from a couple of things like Shingo really should have won, match quality and sheer emotion have been awesome. Loved the Ibushi/Tanahashi match might be favourite so far and ending was beautiful in all honesty, G1 at it's finest and what it's been missing for much of it.

The only problem NJPW might have is waiting to long on guys, we have been here before with Sanada and cooled back down, if it happens again there might not be another great time. If they are ever going to make Shingo or especially Evil single champs now is the time. Even if it were in ROH they would benifit from the time and status as champ considering their build right now.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

I loved SANADA/Okada and the last few minutes was exciting. You could feel SANADA's desperation to finally pin Okada with seconds left was riveting viewing.

Ibushi/Tanahashi was also excellent. The post match interaction between them was low key but priceless at the same time.

[Wilson]

Shingo vs Ishii is some wild, wild shit. Maybe even wilder than it would seem on paper.

If there's anyone who would like a quick and dirty G1 top ten for whatever reason, here's mine so far:

1. Shingo vs Ishii (Night 16)
2. Ibushi vs Tanahashi (Night 13)
3. Ishii vs Moxley (Night 6)
4. Ishii vs Naito (Night 8)
5. Okada vs SANADA (Night 13)
6. Ishii vs Juice (Night 10)
7. Naito vs Shingo (Night 14)
8. KENTA vs Tanahashi (Night 3)
9. Ishii vs Cobb (Night 2)
10. Shingo vs Taichi (Night 6)

[BurningHammer]

I think my top five, I haven’t seen Ishii/Shingo yet

Ibushi vs Tanahashi
Okada vs Ospreay
Okada vs Sanada
Shingo vs Naito
Okada vs Evil

Then a couple of close ones in Kenta vs Tanahashi, Shingo vs Taichi

[Wilson]

Zack Sabre Jr just laid out my favorite KENTA match this G1 (the latter of whom has looked his best in years). ROH should bring Zed Es Jay back. Have him cut promos on Sinclair Broadcasting or how nonsense the Lifeblood gimmick is, I dunno. Let Zack and Lethal roll around. I want to see the Jacobin, anti-Strong Style, Jimmy Neutron-ass long boy in more companies again.

[BurningHammer]

Tanyahashi pulled another one out of the bag with a belter against Ospreay. He really is a modern day legend of this sport.

Really happy to see Ibushi there and I hope he takes the final would breath new life into the division. Thought the Okada match has its moments but didn’t really hit anything like his match with Tanahasi

Taichi has come such a long way this year and I hope it sticks.

Nothing about Moxely is clicking for me and it just feels like a WWE wrestler in a NJPW ring and that just then just had one of the worst bits I’ve seen in a wrestling ring.

I would certainly like to see Zack and Williams wrestle the world away for a twenty minutes.

[Mr. Mojo Risin]

Zack Sabre Jr just laid out my favorite KENTA match this G1 (the latter of whom has looked his best in years). ROH should bring Zed Es Jay back. Have him cut promos on Sinclair Broadcasting or how nonsense the Lifeblood gimmick is, I dunno. Let Zack and Lethal roll around. I want to see the Jacobin, anti-Strong Style, Jimmy Neutron-ass long boy in more companies again.

Totally agree with this after I watched that match. Loved the ending. I think ZSJ also got the most out of Bad Luck Fale, not an easy task to accomplish.

[Montana]

Not sure if we are in spoiler territory still but....

Spoiler: show

Kenta joining bullet club was pretty bad ass. NJPW nailed the turned, and the aftermath. I imagine this is setting up for a return match for shibata... but who knows with his health. I can also see GOD and Kenta in ROH dominating as the bullet club. They all live in Florida i do believe.

[McXal]

The Royal Quest card for later this month is awesome!! So glad I’ll be in attendance!

Okada/Suzuki, Ishii/KENTA, ZSJ/Tanahashi all sound incredible!!

[BurningHammer]

The Royal Quest card for later this month is awesome!! So glad I’ll be in attendance!

Okada/Suzuki, Ishii/KENTA, ZSJ/Tanahashi all sound incredible!!

Same man, one of the best decissions I made getting tickets early, are you heading to Summer Sizzler too?

[McXal]

Unlikely in honesty - not sure I could swing two nights off from parental duties for it I don’t think!

It’s tempting! I love wrestling @ York Hall. It’s such an atmospheric venue when it’s rocking!