MLW Fusion

[famicommander]

Again, what would you pay for programming that is given away for free, 3 days before it would air on your network?

They pay for the program in Spanish and English. It's only free in English.

And again:
1. Youtube was insignificant enough that they dropped it entirely
2. They didn't drop BeIN. In fact, they renewed their agreement this previous October
3. They replaced Youtube directly with Fubo Sports Network because of Youtube's low payouts. Thus, Fubo must payout more than Youtube
4. DAZN has content that isn't free anywhere

Basic logic would dictate that DAZN is probably their biggest paying partner. DAZN gets the TV show and the PPVs, which nobody else gets. There would be no reason to give the PPVs away for free to DAZN subscribers unless they were getting a larger amount back from DAZN itself.

BeIN gets the TV show in English and the TV show in Spanish, which nobody else gets.

Fubo was sought out with the explicit intention of replacing Youtube, which it did.

And then there's the matter of the 20-something other countries where the show airs on television.

Why aren't these platforms lining up to cut Booker T a check for Reality of Wrestling? They've had 14 Youtube videos this year alone that beat every episode of Powerrr.

Guess what the two biggest videos on the platforms of ROH, Impact, MLW, NWA, NJPW, CMLL, Dragon Gate, NOAH, and AJPW are from the last 3 months?

Adam Cole vs Lio Rush from a Road to the Best in the World show and Hornswoggle's AJ Styles parody with over 620,000 views each.

So, obviously, Lio Rush and Hornswoggle are bigger stars than Kazuchika Okada, Tetsuya Naito, Ultimo Guerrero, Jay Lethal, Jay Briscoe, Rush, Dragon Lee, Eddie Edwards, or Katsuhiko Nakajima. Right?

The highest viewed videos on the Impact, ROH, and ROW channels are all women's matches or segments. So, obviously, Mandy Leon and Taeler Hendrix must be more popular than Ken Shamrock and Jay Lethal.

Or maybe, just maybe, Youtube isn't that important. Freaking Reality of Wrestling has more Youtube subscribers than CMLL.

You’re just deflecting. I asked you a simple question, doesn’t really need to be MLW-BeIn specific

It's transparent what you're doing. You're still on your MLW vs NWA kick and everybody on planet earth except you can see that MLW is in a much stronger position and has been since 2017, when NWA was bought and MLW was revived.

NWA is out here offering wrestlers $250 contracts and begging for Patreon donations and you can't see the writing on the wall. The director of operations of their company walked out right as their new show premiered. Meanwhile, MLW is debuting a 4X AAA Mega Champion.

[NewROHFan2020]

I’m not comparing vs NWA. Not once have I mentioned them on this thread. I am asking questions regarding your “informed opinion” on MLW. Though over these last posts, you just deflect and are unable to hold an intelligent discussion

[famicommander]

I’m not comparing vs NWA. Not once have I mentioned them on this thread. I am asking questions regarding your “informed opinion” on MLW. Though over these last posts, you just deflect and are unable to hold an intelligent discussion

Oh please. There's a reason you decided to quote a post from March with this specific line of questioning. You were stoking this same tired discussion we had recently because you think MLW's recent Youtube viewership adds merit to your argument. Which, of course, it doesn't. Youtube is literally an afterthought for MLW. As in, they made a conscious decision that Youtube wasn't worth their time and then afterwards changed their mind because a few fans hit up Court on Twitter.

If MLW's 40-100K views resulted in an amount of money that is negligible enough for MLW to drop it in favor of BeIN, DAZN, Fubo, and TV in 20+ other countries, how much are NWA's sub 150,000 views worth?

Literally, the difference between
Youtube + BeIN + DAZN + Fubo + international TV
and
BeIN + DAZN + Fubo + international TV

Was small enough that MLW didn't consider it worth it to click "upload"

[NewROHFan2020]

I’m not comparing vs NWA. Not once have I mentioned them on this thread. I am asking questions regarding your “informed opinion” on MLW. Though over these last posts, you just deflect and are unable to hold an intelligent discussion

Oh please. There's a reason you decided to quote a post from March with this specific line of questioning. You were stoking this same tired discussion we had recently because you think MLW's recent Youtube viewership adds merit to your argument. Which, of course, it doesn't. Youtube is literally an afterthought for MLW. As in, they made a conscious decision that Youtube wasn't worth their time and then afterwards changed their mind because a few fans hit up Court on Twitter.

If MLW's 40-100K views resulted in an amount of money that is negligible enough for MLW to drop it in favor of BeIN, DAZN, Fubo, and TV in 20+ other countries, how much are NWA's sub 150,000 views worth?

Literally, the difference between
Youtube + BeIN + DAZN + Fubo + international TV
and
BeIN + DAZN + Fubo + international TV

Was small enough that MLW didn't consider it worth it to click "upload"

How else would you know that I posted about it, if I didn’t quote you? This was a dead thread.

Fact - BeIn doesn’t pay much if anything to air MLW Fuzion. No broadcaster in their right mind would pay “significant money” to air a show, that is given away for free, 3 days before. Your only “proof” they get any ratings is a press release, and how many press releases say “less than stellar” things when announcing a partnership? Try none. If BeIn is a great partner and paying for the content, wouldn’t MLW air their show on YouTube 3 days later??

Fact - DAZN airs the same show that is aired for free and they might have the PPVs, but how many are there? I watched 3 boxing cards on DAZN over the last 2 weeks and MLW was not mentioned one time. And again, only a moron would subscribe to DAZN for MLW content. Maybe for 1 month to watch all the PPVs, but they wouldn’t subscribe for a whole year, because they can see the show for free elsewhere. So if DAZN doesn’t even promote the content, they’re paying for, they’re not paying “significant money” either.

You don’t have any real viewership numbers or money about MLW, yet you deflect and say other things to try and prove how “successful” it is. That’s fine that you like it and feel the need to defend it, but your “facts” are built on a house of cards.

[NewROHFan2020]

I just looked at my DAZN app on Roku and the only MLW content on there is the last 4 Fuzion shows. No past PPVs to speak of or past Fuzions. Guess a fan would have to go find them on YouTube. Yep, DAZN is paying big bucks for MLW content!!

[famicommander]

I'm not trying to make MLW out to be more than it is. They're still not even on the level of Impact or ROH, let alone AEW.

I never said MLW was rolling in media rights cash. I said their media deals were far more significant than just uploading their episodes to Youtube. Which should be obvious to anybody with the most basic reasoning ability.

The key difference here is your conception of the NWA. You have this delusional mindset than any promotion that isn't as big as AEW or WWE is automatically the same size.

If WWE is a 100, AEW and NJPW are like a 30-35. CMLL somewhere in the low 20s. AAA, Dragon Gate, CyberFight in the teens. ROH and Impact are low single digits. MLW is a fraction. NWA is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction.

Just look at who MLW books. Look at their touring business before the pandemic. Look at their podcast network, which gets millions of listens per month and is what drove the return of the promotion proper. Look at the fact that they can run their own shows without assistance. Look at the fact that they have actual media deals. Those deals are insignificant on the scale of WWE or AEW, but they're significant enough that it made Youtube irrelevant for MLW. NWA's only platform is Youtube and their viewership and frequency of video uploads has been in decline for over a year, before the pandemic.

You're going to be surprised when NWA continues to dwindle into nothing until Billy inevitably sells it while MLW continues their slow growth with young stars like the Von Erichs and Jacob Fatu. Nobody else will be surprised.

[NewROHFan2020]

I'm not trying to make MLW out to be more than it is. They're still not even on the level of Impact or ROH, let alone AEW.

I never said MLW was rolling in media rights cash. I said their media deals were far more significant than just uploading their episodes to Youtube. Which should be obvious to anybody with the most basic reasoning ability.

The key difference here is your conception of the NWA. You have this delusional mindset than any promotion that isn't as big as AEW or WWE is automatically the same size.

If WWE is a 100, AEW and NJPW are like a 30-35. CMLL somewhere in the low 20s. AAA, Dragon Gate, CyberFight in the teens. ROH and Impact are low single digits. MLW is a fraction. NWA is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction.

Just look at who MLW books. Look at their touring business before the pandemic. Look at their podcast network, which gets millions of listens per month and is what drove the return of the promotion proper. Look at the fact that they can run their own shows without assistance. Look at the fact that they have actual media deals. Those deals are insignificant on the scale of WWE or AEW, but they're significant enough that it made Youtube irrelevant for MLW. NWA's only platform is Youtube and their viewership and frequency of video uploads has been in decline for over a year, before the pandemic.

You're going to be surprised when NWA continues to dwindle into nothing until Billy inevitably sells it while MLW continues their slow growth with young stars like the Von Erichs and Jacob Fatu. Nobody else will be surprised.

Anything not the WWE and AEW is 3rd rate right now. Size doesn’t matter. MLW doesn’t even get the YouTube views of the NWA and no matter what you think, nobody is watching MLW on BeIn/DAZN. BeIn is a soccer channel and DAZN is a boxing channel. Nobody is subscribing to those platforms solely for MLW Fuzion and especially when they can watch it for free on YouTube.

No broadcaster would pay significant money for content that is given away for free, days before. That is borderline throwing away money. YouTube isn’t insignificant because by your own admission, you said MLW fans complained when they took the show off. And once again, you have no proof anyone actually watches MLW on BeIn or DAZN.

You fail to mention that MLW started being a real promotion way before the NWA did. So of course the NWA should be behind MLW in some aspects.

[famicommander]

Billy bought NWA in 2017.
Bauer revived MLW in 2017.

Billy Corgan is orders of magnitude more wealthy than Court Bauer.

So what's the difference here?

Why is MLW able to put on their own shows? Why isn't NWA?
Why does MLW have a functional merch link on their site? Why doesn't NWA?
Why has MLW closed over 20 media deals? Why hasn't NWA?
Why is MLW able to lock up talent for multiyear contracts? Why isn't NWA?
Why did MLW have a successful touring business pre-COVID? Why didn't NWA?
Why is MLW available in multiple language? Why isn't MLW?

These are all steps that differentiate an indie promotion from a major promotion.

[NewROHFan2020]

I don’t know. Would have to see their business models.

MLW isn’t a major promotion.

[Shanahan]

The DAZN deal is weird. I remember Court saying the whole MLW catalog would be going up on DAZN & i see they do only have last 4 fusions...they dont even have the first since restart...

BTW, MLW is highest rated show on Bein. I listen to World Soccer Talk Podcast. They cover Soccer on TV & around this time last year while discussing La Liga TV Ratings one of the guys laughed at how bad ratings were compared to other leagues & smugly remarked "they get destroyed by the wrestling on bein..that's all you need to know"

[NewROHFan2020]

The DAZN deal is weird. I remember Court saying the whole MLW catalog would be going up on DAZN & i see they do only have last 4 fusions...they dont even have the first since restart...

BTW, MLW is highest rated show on Bein. I listen to World Soccer Talk Podcast. They cover Soccer on TV & around this time last year while discussing La Liga TV Ratings one of the guys laughed at how bad ratings were compared to other leagues & smugly remarked "they get destroyed by the wrestling on bein..that's all you need to know"

Define show. Is Barcelona vs Real Betis a show? Of course LaLiga ratings are bad compared to other leagues; they’re on BeIn sports!!!

The commander is the only one touting the DAZN deal. MLW being on DAZN is the equivalent of ROH being on NBA League Pass. Nobody is subscribing for it. Just throw away content.

[Shanahan]

The DAZN deal is weird. I remember Court saying the whole MLW catalog would be going up on DAZN & i see they do only have last 4 fusions...they dont even have the first since restart...

BTW, MLW is highest rated show on Bein. I listen to World Soccer Talk Podcast. They cover Soccer on TV & around this time last year while discussing La Liga TV Ratings one of the guys laughed at how bad ratings were compared to other leagues & smugly remarked "they get destroyed by the wrestling on bein..that's all you need to know"

Define show. Is Barcelona vs Real Betis a show? Of course LaLiga ratings are bad compared to other leagues; they’re on BeIn sports!!!

The commander is the only one touting the DAZN deal. MLW being on DAZN is the equivalent of ROH being on NBA League Pass. Nobody is subscribing for it. Just throw away content.

MLW is highest rated program/show/sport on Bein. Not saying that’s impressive just saying what 2 unbiased tv guys were talking about.

[NewROHFan2020]

The DAZN deal is weird. I remember Court saying the whole MLW catalog would be going up on DAZN & i see they do only have last 4 fusions...they dont even have the first since restart...

BTW, MLW is highest rated show on Bein. I listen to World Soccer Talk Podcast. They cover Soccer on TV & around this time last year while discussing La Liga TV Ratings one of the guys laughed at how bad ratings were compared to other leagues & smugly remarked "they get destroyed by the wrestling on bein..that's all you need to know"

Define show. Is Barcelona vs Real Betis a show? Of course LaLiga ratings are bad compared to other leagues; they’re on BeIn sports!!!

The commander is the only one touting the DAZN deal. MLW being on DAZN is the equivalent of ROH being on NBA League Pass. Nobody is subscribing for it. Just throw away content.

MLW is highest rated program/show/sport on Bein. Not saying that’s impressive just saying what 2 unbiased tv guys were talking about.

Simply not true. “The first weekend of LaLiga matches reached a total of 1.6 million unduplicated viewers on beIN Sports and beIN Sports en Español networks across the United States and Canada.

The broadcaster’s LaLiga Marquee match between FC Barcelona and RCD Mallorca earned an aggregated total audience of 316,000 unduplicated viewers across both networks, ranking as the fourth most-watched cable sports program of the day among all English language and Spanish language cable sports networks. Real Madrid’s return against Eibar reached a combined total audience of 251,000.

“For (beIN Sports), having LaLiga back is having life back,” LaLiga North America CEO Boris Gartner IT said.“

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaellor ... r-restart/

Please point in the direction of MLW showing up in the Cable Top 150 programs or getting 251,000 viewers for a show that has been on YouTube for 3 days.

[Shanahan]

Define show. Is Barcelona vs Real Betis a show? Of course LaLiga ratings are bad compared to other leagues; they’re on BeIn sports!!!

The commander is the only one touting the DAZN deal. MLW being on DAZN is the equivalent of ROH being on NBA League Pass. Nobody is subscribing for it. Just throw away content.

MLW is highest rated program/show/sport on Bein. Not saying that’s impressive just saying what 2 unbiased tv guys were talking about.

Simply not true. “The first weekend of LaLiga matches reached a total of 1.6 million unduplicated viewers on beIN Sports and beIN Sports en Español networks across the United States and Canada.

The broadcaster’s LaLiga Marquee match between FC Barcelona and RCD Mallorca earned an aggregated total audience of 316,000 unduplicated viewers across both networks, ranking as the fourth most-watched cable sports program of the day among all English language and Spanish language cable sports networks. Real Madrid’s return against Eibar reached a combined total audience of 251,000.

“For (beIN Sports), having LaLiga back is having life back,” LaLiga North America CEO Boris Gartner IT said.“

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaellor ... r-restart/

Please point in the direction of MLW showing up in the Cable Top 150 programs or getting 251,000 viewers for a show that has been on YouTube for 3 days.

This is after almost a 4 month absence due to the pandemic. Every sport was way up after returning. Ratings went back to normal shortly after. I really dont care about ratings i was just relying what i had heard on a podcast from nov 2019.

[NewROHFan2020]

MLW is highest rated program/show/sport on Bein. Not saying that’s impressive just saying what 2 unbiased tv guys were talking about.

Simply not true. “The first weekend of LaLiga matches reached a total of 1.6 million unduplicated viewers on beIN Sports and beIN Sports en Español networks across the United States and Canada.

The broadcaster’s LaLiga Marquee match between FC Barcelona and RCD Mallorca earned an aggregated total audience of 316,000 unduplicated viewers across both networks, ranking as the fourth most-watched cable sports program of the day among all English language and Spanish language cable sports networks. Real Madrid’s return against Eibar reached a combined total audience of 251,000.

“For (beIN Sports), having LaLiga back is having life back,” LaLiga North America CEO Boris Gartner IT said.“

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaellor ... r-restart/

Please point in the direction of MLW showing up in the Cable Top 150 programs or getting 251,000 viewers for a show that has been on YouTube for 3 days.

This is after almost a 4 month absence due to the pandemic. Every sport was way up after returning. Ratings went back to normal shortly after. I really dont care about ratings i was just relying what i had heard on a podcast from nov 2019.

Common sense would say that if MLW was getting 250k viewers on BeIn there would be press releases about it right? Barcelona vs Real Madrid matches get good ratings too, there is no fucking way MLW gets higher ratings than that.

[Shanahan]

Simply not true. “The first weekend of LaLiga matches reached a total of 1.6 million unduplicated viewers on beIN Sports and beIN Sports en Español networks across the United States and Canada.

The broadcaster’s LaLiga Marquee match between FC Barcelona and RCD Mallorca earned an aggregated total audience of 316,000 unduplicated viewers across both networks, ranking as the fourth most-watched cable sports program of the day among all English language and Spanish language cable sports networks. Real Madrid’s return against Eibar reached a combined total audience of 251,000.

“For (beIN Sports), having LaLiga back is having life back,” LaLiga North America CEO Boris Gartner IT said.“

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaellor ... r-restart/

Please point in the direction of MLW showing up in the Cable Top 150 programs or getting 251,000 viewers for a show that has been on YouTube for 3 days.

This is after almost a 4 month absence due to the pandemic. Every sport was way up after returning. Ratings went back to normal shortly after. I really dont care about ratings i was just relying what i had heard on a podcast from nov 2019.

Common sense would say that if MLW was getting 250k viewers on BeIn there would be press releases about it right? Barcelona vs Real Madrid matches get good ratings too, there is no fucking way MLW gets higher ratings than that.

i'm not saying mlw ratings are huge. They aren't. Bein is 1 of the lowest rated networks on TV. They also lost Cable TV operators. I just said what i heard from soccer podcast last year...numbers can be very different this year.

[NewROHFan2020]

Anyone watch Kings of Colosseum last night? Currently watching on YouTube. 24,000 views as of now.

[famicommander]

Anyone watch Kings of Colosseum last night? Currently watching on YouTube. 24,000 views as of now.

I did. It was extremely disappointing.

When they said it was a PPV show they were giving away for free, I expected an extended run time.

Instead, we got a below average episode of Fusion. Lio Rush vs Myron Reed was a good match, but that's it.

The Von Erichs won in a squash. Seems like MLW has had at least one squash match every single episode since the restart. I'm sick of it.

Simon Gotch vs Jordan Oliver was advertised but didn't take place. It probably wouldn't have been a good match, but they shouldn't advertise matches that don't happen.

And then Krugger vs Hammerstone ends in a non-finish because they booked themselves into a corner and neither guy can afford an L right now.

Seemed like Mil Muertes was going to debut but it turned out they were hyping Salina's announcement of next week's episode, which actually looks way better than what we got this week.

AEW's show sucked ass last night too, minus the very good Omega vs Fenix main event:
-Snoop Dogg off the top rope
-four man train wreck commentary. Why does AEW have three play by play guys and no color commentator?
-Bad women's title match. Stupid under the ring shenanigans. You can't play up Adadon "biting a chunk" out of people when those bites clearly don't leave lasting scars.
-Jake Hager and Wardlow both suck
-Sting once again makes an entrance and just stands there.
-Weigh-in segments are stupid and pointless in a sport without weight classes

I started watching during Hager vs Wardlow so I can't comment on the quality of the segments before it, but damn. I thought the Brodie episode was the best show AEW ever did, and to follow it up with garbage like this is really disappointing.

I didn't watch the NXT card. Hopefully those who did were more entertained by it than I was by MLW or AEW.

[NewROHFan2020]

Anyone watch Kings of Colosseum last night? Currently watching on YouTube. 24,000 views as of now.

I did. It was extremely disappointing.

When they said it was a PPV show they were giving away for free, I expected an extended run time.

Instead, we got a below average episode of Fusion. Lio Rush vs Myron Reed was a good match, but that's it.

The Von Erichs won in a squash. Seems like MLW has had at least one squash match every single episode since the restart. I'm sick of it.

Simon Gotch vs Jordan Oliver was advertised but didn't take place. It probably wouldn't have been a good match, but they shouldn't advertise matches that don't happen.

And then Krugger vs Hammerstone ends in a non-finish because they booked themselves into a corner and neither guy can afford an L right now.

Seemed like Mil Muertes was going to debut but it turned out they were hyping Salina's announcement of next week's episode, which actually looks way better than what we got this week.

AEW's show sucked ass last night too, minus the very good Omega vs Fenix main event:
-Snoop Dogg off the top rope
-four man train wreck commentary. Why does AEW have three play by play guys and no color commentator?
-Bad women's title match. Stupid under the ring shenanigans. You can't play up Adadon "biting a chunk" out of people when those bites clearly don't leave lasting scars.
-Jake Hager and Wardlow both suck
-Sting once again makes an entrance and just stands there.
-Weigh-in segments are stupid and pointless in a sport without weight classes

I started watching during Hager vs Wardlow so I can't comment on the quality of the segments before it, but damn. I thought the Brodie episode was the best show AEW ever did, and to follow it up with garbage like this is really disappointing.

I didn't watch the NXT card. Hopefully those who did were more entertained by it than I was by MLW or AEW.

We actually agree on something! When I queued it up and it said it was only 50 minutes, I was like WTF?

The squash matches suck, especially when they kinda hyped the Dirty Blondes, then they lose in under 4 minutes. That’s the best you got for a “special show” you’ve been hyping for weeks?

The Gotch match thing is really stupid. If it’s a live show, understandable, but not on a taped show. This is what bothers me on MLW. I believe they try to portray themselves are more “real” than others, but I find the Contra shit goofy. Always interrupting interviews or something. It’s dumb. A real sports network and sports OTT service show your product, but they’re trying to portray some nWo invader stuff. That stuff doesn’t work anymore, who believes that?

The Rush/Reed match was good. No complaints, but they’re (MLW) just like everyone else. Get a released WWE guy and give him a title or top spot out of the shoot.

I didn’t have a problem with the Hammerstone match. Though I don’t think a guy who’s only beaten jobbers should be getting a title shot.

[kovs27]

I agree with fami, other than Reed/Rush is was a pretty disappointing show.