All Elite Wrestling Thread

[kovs27]

I'd say the bigger lesson is don't book a different companies champion in a program where he eventually has to lose.

[Big Red Machine]

I'd say the bigger lesson is don't book a different companies champion in a program where he eventually has to lose.

The defense I've heard for this is that the expected PAC vs. Omega match where PAC would do the job was planned for far enough out that they assumed PAC would no longer be champion by the time the match rolled around.

[weresinusoid]

I'd say the bigger lesson is don't book a different companies champion in a program where he eventually has to lose.

I completely agree with you.

[kovs27]

I'd say the bigger lesson is don't book a different companies champion in a program where he eventually has to lose.

The defense I've heard for this is that the expected PAC vs. Omega match where PAC would do the job was planned for far enough out that they assumed PAC would no longer be champion by the time the match rolled around.

To be fair I do think it is reasonable to assume that somewhere between May and September (the speculation was for the match to take place at All In 2) that PAC would have lost the title and have been able to lose. It just feels like a rookie mistake and I would expect a new company filled with people who have zero experience running a wrestling company are going to have more hiccups as time goes on.

[Chrisvegas27]

Jon moxley is appearing for njpw I could see if njpw drops Roh for aew it could destroy impact and Roh or force impact and roh to team together to stay alive

[Montana]

Well, we know ROH and NJPW (along with CMLL/RevPro) have a Summer Supercard in August. I'd imagine if anything NJPW isn't dropping ROH that soon. Chris Jericho i believe was also scheduled for dominion too. Seems like AEW is giving wrestlers very open contracts to working with other promotions (at least for now). We haven't seen any NJPW wrestlers on AEW shows yet. ROH could even be more attractive, as they give the young lions valuable experience & exposure. Maybe NJPW is thinking if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

ROH and Impact and Impact working together is an interesting concept. Right now, it's really turning into a chess game between the power struggle with many of these companies. Right now, signing talent to long term deals is key. Positioning your company to be an attractive dance partner to other companies. Then obviously funding and distribution.

[Chrisvegas27]

I guess what I'm saying is roh relies on new japan way too much and it seems like sinclair and the higher up in roh are ok with it plus it's annoying to see what aew done in so little time with getting major t.v. deals and big talent that could have been roh if sinclair put in a effort even like you said and others have said both parties dropped the ball after the g1 and there no getting that again It's back to normal like usual for them

[BurningHammer]

I don't it's out of the realms of possibility of ROH being part of the group, but in all honesty I don't know if I really want them to be considering how I see AEW. I would be happy with ROH standing on it's own, there are always wrestlers good enough to make a brand attractive to watch, you just have to sensible and vigilant enough to get them, the same can be said for roles backstage etc. I would be happy if ROH just brought in five or six quality guys that I have never heard and laid a new foundation, I feel with AEW I will end up seeing the same talent over and over again without much growth which I already have for like the last eight years

Impact already look aligned with AEW but that may change once certain contracts are over with, I guess it depends how central AEW feel AAA are going to be their long term plans

Right ROH isn't really able to compete with the financial level and success so far that AEW is able to offer, even the WWE is going to struggle to keep hold of talent with what's going on. That being said AEW could well have a stock piling situation at a certain point, if it doesn't have already. You have multiple talents that were have joined the company already and weren't even used on the show, yet the show went a very long time. Now they then have to condense that time into 2 hours for TV, something will have to give if all signed talents, including, OVE, and Joshi are going to be highlighted in some fashion, you also have to look at the idea that it AEW is supposedly going to be a sports competition based company (which really didn't seem to be present at all with DOA) so you would think match times would be longer or a chance for a match of the year candidate would be on the agenda again that takes time away from the show. They could find themselves in a situation where talent wants time and isn't getting so wants to be let go, and I think talent wanting to be apart of AEW now needs to think about that, where are they going to be on the card, from PPV to TV are they going to be that happy they are apart of something 'special' that they don't care, if there is anything about them, they will.

ROH uses NJPW talent to boost house show and PPV numbers, they really aren't all that central to ROH and don't have to be, even the use of Juice had died now and wether that happens again I don't know.

[Memphis Mark]

I don't it's out of the realms of possibility of ROH being part of the group, but in all honesty I don't know if I really want them to be considering how I see AEW. In all honesty I would be happy with ROH standing on it's own, there are always wrestlers good enough to make a brand attractive to watch, you just have to sensible and vigilant enough to get them, the same can be said for roles backstage etc. I would be happy if ROH just brought in five or six quality guys that I have never heard and laid a new foundation, I feel with AEW I will end up seeing the same talent over and over again without much growth which I already have for like the last eight years

Impact already look aligned with AEW but that may change once certain contracts are over with, I guess it depends how central AEW feel AAA are going to be their long term plans

Right ROH isn't really able to compete with the financial level and success so far that AEW is able to offer, even the WWE is going to struggle to keep hold of talent with what's going on. That being said AEW could well have a stock piling situation at a certain point, if it doesn't have already. You have multiple talents that were have joined the company already and weren't even used on the show, yet the show went a very long time. Now they then have to condense that time into 2 hours for TV, something will have to give if all signed talents, including, OVE, and Joshi are going to be highlighted in some fashion, you also have to look at the idea that it AEW is supposedly going to be a sports competition based company (which really didn't seem to be present at all with DOA) so you would think match times would be longer or a chance for a match of the year candidate would be on the agenda again that takes time away from the show. They could find themselves in a situation where talent wants time and isn't getting so wants to be let go, and I think talent wanting to be apart of AEW now needs to think about that, where are they going to be on the card, from PPV to TV are they going to be that happy they are apart of something 'special' that they don't care, if there is anything about them, they will.

ROH uses NJPW talent to boost house show and PPV numbers, they really aren't all that central to ROH and don't have to be, even the use of Juice had died now and wether that happens again I don't know.

Sinclair can compete with the WWE and AEW on a financial level . SBGI has a market cap of over $ 5 billion dollars . They just paid $ 10 billion for the Fox Sports networks. SBGI corporate is risk adverse , they just don't want to risk capital on wrestling.Hopefully Mr. Smith will find his lost wallet .

NJPW has issues with the way Kenny Omega and Trent left the company. Plus the contract talks with the Bucks seem to go poorly per Matt Jackson. Why would NJPW ever want to dump ROH ? ROH is owned by a company that can provide multiple media platforms for NJPW to grow their brand in North America. Also maybe NJPW and ROH have a relationship built on loyalty and trust. NJPW will use some AEW guys in Japan , but ROH will still their America partner.

Juice will be back in ROH . Guy can't be in two places at once.

All of this will settle down. After the AEW honeymoon period is over, things will change. AEW undercard talent will be unhappy with their pay and booking. So , they will start jumping to ROH , NJPW and NXT . The WWE will realize it is pointless to pay talent to sit at home in this competitive market. So , the WWE will release people to reduce their labor cost. In the end I think ROH and NJPW will be fine. T

[BurningHammer]

I don't it's out of the realms of possibility of ROH being part of the group, but in all honesty I don't know if I really want them to be considering how I see AEW. In all honesty I would be happy with ROH standing on it's own, there are always wrestlers good enough to make a brand attractive to watch, you just have to sensible and vigilant enough to get them, the same can be said for roles backstage etc. I would be happy if ROH just brought in five or six quality guys that I have never heard and laid a new foundation, I feel with AEW I will end up seeing the same talent over and over again without much growth which I already have for like the last eight years

Impact already look aligned with AEW but that may change once certain contracts are over with, I guess it depends how central AEW feel AAA are going to be their long term plans

Right ROH isn't really able to compete with the financial level and success so far that AEW is able to offer, even the WWE is going to struggle to keep hold of talent with what's going on. That being said AEW could well have a stock piling situation at a certain point, if it doesn't have already. You have multiple talents that were have joined the company already and weren't even used on the show, yet the show went a very long time. Now they then have to condense that time into 2 hours for TV, something will have to give if all signed talents, including, OVE, and Joshi are going to be highlighted in some fashion, you also have to look at the idea that it AEW is supposedly going to be a sports competition based company (which really didn't seem to be present at all with DOA) so you would think match times would be longer or a chance for a match of the year candidate would be on the agenda again that takes time away from the show. They could find themselves in a situation where talent wants time and isn't getting so wants to be let go, and I think talent wanting to be apart of AEW now needs to think about that, where are they going to be on the card, from PPV to TV are they going to be that happy they are apart of something 'special' that they don't care, if there is anything about them, they will.

ROH uses NJPW talent to boost house show and PPV numbers, they really aren't all that central to ROH and don't have to be, even the use of Juice had died now and wether that happens again I don't know.

Sinclair can compete with the WWE and AEW on a financial level . SBGI has a market cap of over $ 5 billion dollars . They just paid $ 10 billion for the Fox Sports networks. SBGI corporate is risk adverse , they just don't want to risk capital on wrestling.Hopefully Mr. Smith will find his lost wallet .

NJPW has issues with the way Kenny Omega and Trent left the company. Plus the contract talks with the Bucks seem to go poorly per Matt Jackson. Why would NJPW ever want to dump ROH ? ROH is owned by a company that can provide multiple media platforms for NJPW to grow their brand in North America. Also maybe NJPW and ROH have a relationship built on loyalty and trust. NJPW will use some AEW guys in Japan , but ROH will still their America partner.

Juice will be back in ROH . Guy can't be in two places at once.

All of this will settle down. After the AEW honeymoon period is over, things will change. AEW undercard talent will be unhappy with their pay and booking. So , they will start jumping to ROH , NJPW and NXT . The WWE will realize it is pointless to pay talent to sit at home in this competitive market. So , the WWE will release people to reduce their labor cost. In the end I think ROH and NJPW will be fine. T

I understand Sinclairs financial weight but right it's only a possibility, ROH obviously has a budget to run with and the fact is the other three companies is much higher. AEW and NJPW also have got people involved in all areas who have a very contemporary view of wrestling and fits in with the modern fan market, ROH really hasn't. ROH will have a chance to grow when the Fox network deal is fully completed and Sinclair create a spot for ROH on all of those stations but that could take time, which I don't know if ROH has right now.

I think NJPW would see the AEW as a greater allie in terms of media exposure and a powerful figure to join the fans together, there is a huge push back with NJPW fans in America with their alliance in ROH, because it means no Bucks, Omega etc. It also depends how much value they put in Omega and Bucks if they feel they are more valuable than them to ROH overal of course they will dump ROH and that's ok loyalty only goes some way especially with what ROH did with Enzo and Cass. ROH can still find itself in this market and draw fans that they need it will just take time.

Considering the number of dates Juice was going to seemingly be involved in he really hasn't been. So I don't think that is really a sure thing, the same with Ospreay he was hugely pissed with what happened with Enzo and Cass and we may not see him again.

AEW may well change the market for a long time I don't know, it maybe able to sustain all this, I don't feel they will but it's possible which could change a lot for talent, many in NXT may leave, there are quite a few I could see going there but again they have to able cope with the demands a lot of talent has. Overall it's interesting to see where they go and how everything settles down with TV.

[supersonic]

This is legitimately the most excited I’ve been for wrestling’s future since Money in the Bank 2011, and like that night, ROH gets zero credit for that.

[monster mafia]

New Japan Pro Wrestling GM Michael Craven: "New Japan and Jon Moxley came to terms on an agreement some time ago, completely independently of All Elite. Our understanding is that he is free to wrestle in Japan. We wish AEW well, but have no working relationship as of now."

[Wilson]

Not to sound millenarian about where they're headed, but I expect ROH to take a pretty serious backseat in American wrestling for a whole host of reasons. ROH will probably take it on the chin and keep plugging away, and most people will forget about the serious attendance gains they had from 2017-2018.

I'm not really enthusiastic core people in the elite, so I don't know why I was so surprised by how lifeless I thought the main event matches from Double or Nothing were. The general response so far to the has been this befuddling cocktail of positive feedback while never still never claiming it to be anything above a solid showing. In terms of wrestling or pacing out a PPV, there are probably only a few ROH PPVs from the past few years I wouldn't recommend over this. It felt every bit of 4+ hours, and it straddled this style between NJPW and WWE (makes sense) that never struck a chord with me.

[supersonic]

Not to sound millenarian about where they're headed, but I expect ROH to take a pretty serious backseat in American wrestling for a whole host of reasons. ROH will probably take it on the chin and keep plugging away, and most people will forget about the serious attendance gains they had from 2017-2018.

I'm not really enthusiastic core people in the elite, so I don't know why I was so surprised by how lifeless I thought the main event matches from Double or Nothing were. The general response so far to the has been this befuddling cocktail of positive feedback while never still never claiming it to be anything above a solid showing. In terms of wrestling or pacing out a PPV, there are probably only a few ROH PPVs from the past few years I wouldn't recommend over this. It felt every bit of 4+ hours, and it straddled this style between NJPW and WWE (makes sense) that never struck a chord with me.

NXT and NJPW are still the big event kings.

[supersonic]

Contacting the Sears Centre tomorrow to inquire about All Out group tickets, including suite options.

[BurningHammer]

Not to sound millenarian about where they're headed, but I expect ROH to take a pretty serious backseat in American wrestling for a whole host of reasons. ROH will probably take it on the chin and keep plugging away, and most people will forget about the serious attendance gains they had from 2017-2018.

I'm not really enthusiastic core people in the elite, so I don't know why I was so surprised by how lifeless I thought the main event matches from Double or Nothing were. The general response so far to the has been this befuddling cocktail of positive feedback while never still never claiming it to be anything above a solid showing. In terms of wrestling or pacing out a PPV, there are probably only a few ROH PPVs from the past few years I wouldn't recommend over this. It felt every bit of 4+ hours, and it straddled this style between NJPW and WWE (makes sense) that never struck a chord with me.

I think they already have been this year, especially after what happened at G1 Supercard, ROH is still trying to recover from that, let alone the ongoing story line with Bully Ray which is constant negative for many outside an ROH bubble or even in it. The NJPW, Bullet Club fan really isn't apart of ROH anymore apart from maybe for Marty, you can def see there are more ROH fans at events these days than before and honestly I just hope that keeps growing whatever the number.

The main problem will likely come in keeping upper tier talent like Jeff Cobb after the contract ends in a couple of months, then they will have to think Bandido afterwards, the rest I think will stay and that's not a bad thing at all, having wrestlers like Haskins, Williams, Gresham is fantastic a great base to build from again, and if ROH can focusing on getting similar quality but with say stronger personalities, like a may ready made Taven, ROH will be fine and maybe in a better possition overall in the long term. I think talent from Future of Honor and the combines will likely become more important as they should.

[monster mafia]

[supersonic]

What should ROH demand (not just financially) should AEW request streaming and home video distribution rights for All In?

I’d go with one-shot deals on separate cards for Moxley and Jericho. One of them must job clean.

[dhads7161]

I didn't quite see it in him in ROH but he looked like a star in that battle royal.

[Montana]

I didn't quite see it in him in ROH but he looked like a star in that battle royal.

The IWC hated Luchasarus in ROH, but yet loved him in AEW. That's wrestling fans for you. People thought he was sloppy in ROH, but i thought he looked pretty good. Part of it was probably that people wanted ROH to get established names too. Plus he worked some with Impact prior to AEW.


As for what ROH should ask for "all In' ... I think they need to reconsider that partnership with AEW now that they have TNT locked up, and a ton of momentum. ROH can resign guys like Marty and Flip, and loan them to AEW... Then guys like Hangman, and MJF, and a few of their upper mid card guys in return. Sooner or later AEW is going to have a surplus of guys... and similar to how WWE uses multiple tiers, ROH could be a branch of AEW. I'd like for ROH to stand on its own, but i imagine as things get competitive, their top talent will get swallowed quickly by AEW/WWE.