WWN/EVOLVE Thread

[ROHWorld_Jon]

I was at EVOLVE 33 last night and I had a really good time overall. As soon as I saw what venue they booked I thought there was no way they were going to fit a ring and people in there. It's a tiny place where mostly local bands go to play and there is a little half-wall that separates the stage area and bar area, which makes it feel even smaller. So it was no surprise to see they moved it outside in the "courtyard." It's really just an alleyway that's been fenced off with a door that connects to the venue.

I thought it looked kind of sad and bush-league at first, but as soon as the matches started I thought it was really cool. I'm just glad I bought general admission tickets instead of front row, as I was just as close and spent less than half what they did. I stood by the entrance way most of the night (I was wearing my Cactus Jack shirt if you want to look for me) and even got to pound on the mat during the main event, which is something I've always wanted to do.

As for the show itself, the pre-show stuff was all too short to mean too much. But I thought the actual main show was really good with the two main matches delivering as much as I hoped they would. This is my live review with my star ratings for the show.

Anthony Nese vs Lince Dorado - Much like the pre-show, this didn't get much time and I honestly don't remember anything about it other than Nese winning and constantly complaining about how he should be the EVOLVE Champion. **

Caleb Konley vs Chris Hero - I can't say I was looking forward to this match all that much since I've never been a huge Konley fan and Hero's current condition made me worried. But all my concerns were unfounded as these two had a very good competitive match. This was the best I've ever seen Konley look and Hero's weight issues didn't look all that bad in person. There were a couple of really good spots in the match and both wrestlers were really good at playing to the crowd. Nese's interference got a little annoying at times, but it was never too much to take away from the match. *** 1/4

James Raideen vs Timothy Thatcher - This kind of wrestling just isn't for me. I know some people love it but I can't say I'm one of those. For me to enjoy a match, it would have to have some kind of innovative submissions or stiff strikes, and this match didn't have much of either. It wasn't boring moreso than it was just bland. ** 1/4

Biff Busick vs Drew Gulak - Much like the previous match, I'm sure others are going to like this match a lot more than I did. I thought it was a much better version of the match we had seen in the first Style Battle match of the night. Still, I couldn't get into it but the finishing sequence was pretty fun. ***

Drew Galloway vs Ricochet - This is where the show really picked up and these two put together a borderline great match. Galloway proved that the WWE made a mistake by letting him go and Ricochet showed why he is one of the best in the world. This was a physical contest with both men beating the tar out of each other. They got the crowd back into it after the Style Battle kind of calmed us down and it made for a very fun match. This is one to check out. *** 3/4

Rich Swann vs Johnny Gargano - This was awesome. Swann and Gargano went all out with brutal spot after brutal spot during this match and it never seemed like overkill. They built everything up nicely and it made for the best match of the night and one of the best matches I can remember seeing in EVOLVE recently. The crowd was on fire and it made for an incredible atmosphere as the alley way we were in only helped the match feel more gritty and intense. I can't recommend this match enough. I loved every second of it. **** 1/4

Overall, I'd say EVOLVE 33 is the second best of the four EVOLVE shows I've been to, with only the USA vs the World show coming out ahead of it. I would love to see the company return and hopefully more people show up next time, but they would have to find a different venue to fit a bigger crowd. Hopefully they can capitalize on the momentum with their New York shows and build some buzz as the year winds down.

[DXvsNWO1994]

I was at EVOLVE 33 last night and I had a really good time overall. As soon as I saw what venue they booked I thought there was no way they were going to fit a ring and people in there. It's a tiny place where mostly local bands go to play and there is a little half-wall that separates the stage area and bar area, which makes it feel even smaller. So it was no surprise to see they moved it outside in the "courtyard." It's really just an alleyway that's been fenced off with a door that connects to the venue.

I thought it looked kind of sad and bush-league at first, but as soon as the matches started I thought it was really cool. I'm just glad I bought general admission tickets instead of front row, as I was just as close and spent less than half what they did. I stood by the entrance way most of the night (I was wearing my Cactus Jack shirt if you want to look for me) and even got to pound on the mat during the main event, which is something I've always wanted to do.

As for the show itself, the pre-show stuff was all too short to mean too much. But I thought the actual main show was really good with the two main matches delivering as much as I hoped they would. This is my live review with my star ratings for the show.

Anthony Nese vs Lince Dorado - Much like the pre-show, this didn't get much time and I honestly don't remember anything about it other than Nese winning and constantly complaining about how he should be the EVOLVE Champion. **

Caleb Konley vs Chris Hero - I can't say I was looking forward to this match all that much since I've never been a huge Konley fan and Hero's current condition made me worried. But all my concerns were unfounded as these two had a very good competitive match. This was the best I've ever seen Konley look and Hero's weight issues didn't look all that bad in person. There were a couple of really good spots in the match and both wrestlers were really good at playing to the crowd. Nese's interference got a little annoying at times, but it was never too much to take away from the match. *** 1/4

James Raideen vs Timothy Thatcher - This kind of wrestling just isn't for me. I know some people love it but I can't say I'm one of those. For me to enjoy a match, it would have to have some kind of innovative submissions or stiff strikes, and this match didn't have much of either. It wasn't boring moreso than it was just bland. ** 1/4

Biff Busick vs Drew Gulak - Much like the previous match, I'm sure others are going to like this match a lot more than I did. I thought it was a much better version of the match we had seen in the first Style Battle match of the night. Still, I couldn't get into it but the finishing sequence was pretty fun. ***

Drew Galloway vs Ricochet - This is where the show really picked up and these two put together a borderline great match. Galloway proved that the WWE made a mistake by letting him go and Ricochet showed why he is one of the best in the world. This was a physical contest with both men beating the tar out of each other. They got the crowd back into it after the Style Battle kind of calmed us down and it made for a very fun match. This is one to check out. *** 3/4

Rich Swann vs Johnny Gargano - This was awesome. Swann and Gargano went all out with brutal spot after brutal spot during this match and it never seemed like overkill. They built everything up nicely and it made for the best match of the night and one of the best matches I can remember seeing in EVOLVE recently. The crowd was on fire and it made for an incredible atmosphere as the alley way we were in only helped the match feel more gritty and intense. I can't recommend this match enough. I loved every second of it. **** 1/4

Overall, I'd say EVOLVE 33 is the second best of the four EVOLVE shows I've been to, with only the USA vs the World show coming out ahead of it. I would love to see the company return and hopefully more people show up next time, but they would have to find a different venue to fit a bigger crowd. Hopefully they can capitalize on the momentum with their New York shows and build some buzz as the year winds down.

The situation with the venue was surprising. If the ring wasn't going to fit, they why did they book that venue? Seems like a massive oversight on the part of the people running Evolve.

Glad to hear you enjoyed the show! It came off pretty good on the iPPV. Didn't think it matched Evolve 32 from Orlando, but it was still very solid. Pretty much have the same thoughts (and ratings) as you with the two Main Events.

I'm curious with your thoughts about Hero's weight issues. Do you think that it's not as bad live compared to the photos that have been going around?

[ROHWorld_Jon]

The situation with the venue was surprising. If the ring wasn't going to fit, they why did they book that venue? Seems like a massive oversight on the part of the people running Evolve.

Glad to hear you enjoyed the show! It came off pretty good on the iPPV. Didn't think it matched Evolve 32 from Orlando, but it was still very solid. Pretty much have the same thoughts (and ratings) as you with the two Main Events.

I'm curious with your thoughts about Hero's weight issues. Do you think that it's not as bad live compared to the photos that have been going around?

I knew as soon as they announced the venue that it was going to be a tight squeeze if they were even going to be able to fit everything in there. The place they ran the last couple of times closed (I think. In Jacksonville, the same venues open and close so frequently it's hard to keep up with) and the people who booked shows there are now responsible for a few other places. I have a friend who knows the guys who booked it and he told me a few weeks ago they were planning on having the show outside, so it didn't come as a surprise to me when I got there. I guess the EVOLVE people assumed they were dealing with a similar venue they were used to running with the people but it didn't turn out that way. But it made for an awesome atmosphere by the end of the night.

I'm not sure if I was expecting it to look worse or if it does come across worse on camera, but Hero's weight didn't look horrible in person. Obviously, he has gained weight and has a bit of a gut on him now, but I don't think it hurt his look or image at all. He still looks like a big time wrestler, if that makes sense. If he gained much more weight, however, I'm sure it would begin to look a lot worse.

That being said, Caleb Konley got in a funny line at the beginning of the match when he pointed to Hero's stomach and said "That must be jelly because jam doesn't jiggle like that."

[DXvsNWO1994]

I knew as soon as they announced the venue that it was going to be a tight squeeze if they were even going to be able to fit everything in there. The place they ran the last couple of times closed (I think. In Jacksonville, the same venues open and close so frequently it's hard to keep up with) and the people who booked shows there are now responsible for a few other places. I have a friend who knows the guys who booked it and he told me a few weeks ago they were planning on having the show outside, so it didn't come as a surprise to me when I got there. I guess the EVOLVE people assumed they were dealing with a similar venue they were used to running with the people but it didn't turn out that way. But it made for an awesome atmosphere by the end of the night.

I'm not sure if I was expecting it to look worse or if it does come across worse on camera, but Hero's weight didn't look horrible in person. Obviously, he has gained weight and has a bit of a gut on him now, but I don't think it hurt his look or image at all. He still looks like a big time wrestler, if that makes sense. If he gained much more weight, however, I'm sure it would begin to look a lot worse.

That being said, Caleb Konley got in a funny line at the beginning of the match when he pointed to Hero's stomach and said "That must be jelly because jam doesn't jiggle like that."

The setting did look cool with all that graffiti on the walls. Wrestling is Art after all.

Hero can still put on good matches, but when I think of his weight issues, his ring gear comes to mind. Those tights made it appear a lot worse. If he can't lose the gut, he has to go "back in time" with his attire.

I did catch that comment from Konley. It made me lol a little bit.

Just curious, but what turns you off about Caleb Konley? A lot people (myself included) think he's a pretty talented wrestler who's been incredibly mistreated in Dragon Gate USA/Evolve for years with The Scene and now The Premiere Athlete Brand. I've actually heard some say that he's a better fit for ROH.

[ROHWorld_Jon]

I knew as soon as they announced the venue that it was going to be a tight squeeze if they were even going to be able to fit everything in there. The place they ran the last couple of times closed (I think. In Jacksonville, the same venues open and close so frequently it's hard to keep up with) and the people who booked shows there are now responsible for a few other places. I have a friend who knows the guys who booked it and he told me a few weeks ago they were planning on having the show outside, so it didn't come as a surprise to me when I got there. I guess the EVOLVE people assumed they were dealing with a similar venue they were used to running with the people but it didn't turn out that way. But it made for an awesome atmosphere by the end of the night.

I'm not sure if I was expecting it to look worse or if it does come across worse on camera, but Hero's weight didn't look horrible in person. Obviously, he has gained weight and has a bit of a gut on him now, but I don't think it hurt his look or image at all. He still looks like a big time wrestler, if that makes sense. If he gained much more weight, however, I'm sure it would begin to look a lot worse.

That being said, Caleb Konley got in a funny line at the beginning of the match when he pointed to Hero's stomach and said "That must be jelly because jam doesn't jiggle like that."

The setting did look cool with all that graffiti on the walls. Wrestling is Art after all.

Hero can still put on good matches, but when I think of his weight issues, his ring gear comes to mind. Those tights made it appear a lot worse. If he can't lose the gut, he has to go "back in time" with his attire.

I did catch that comment from Konley. It made me lol a little bit.

Just curious, but what turns you off about Caleb Konley? A lot people (myself included) think he's a pretty talented wrestler who's been incredibly mistreated in Dragon Gate USA/Evolve for years with The Scene and now The Premiere Athlete Brand. I've actually heard some say that he's a better fit for ROH.

Hero going back to the vest thing he used to wear might do the trick and look pretty cool in the process. But if he stays about where he's at right now, judging from how he looked Sunday, I wouldn't say that's 100 percent necessary.

The only setting I think I've ever seen Konley in is DGUSA/EVOLVE, so I've only seen the mismanaged version of him. I guess the saying perception is reality holds true with how I saw him. I thought everything about the Scene was horrible, but I like the Premier Athlete Brand and from everything I've been reading it sounds like he's finally coming into his own in EVOLVE. Hopefully that trend continues and he won't be overshadowed by Trent? when he returns.

[Ladrao12]

The only setting I think I've ever seen Konley in is DGUSA/EVOLVE, so I've only seen the mismanaged version of him. I guess the saying perception is reality holds true with how I saw him. I thought everything about the Scene was horrible, but I like the Premier Athlete Brand and from everything I've been reading it sounds like he's finally coming into his own in EVOLVE. Hopefully that trend continues and he won't be overshadowed by Trent? when he returns.

Truthfully, before Konley was put into the Premiere Athlete Brand a couple of months ago, he was kind of bland. I've seen a lot of PWX stuff over the years, and all of his stuff in DGUSA/Evolve, and no matter what he was doing, be it The Scene, his solo work, he was a decent wrestler with no character.

As soon as he went heel again, teamed with Nese & Baretta, it was a like he flipped a switch. His matches have been better, his mic work, his character, overall everything has gotten better.

[DXvsNWO1994]

Konley has definitely gotten better, without question.

[Robareid]

I've decided to jump into EVOLVE with their chapter 2. This is my first exposure to many of their talents. Quite looking forward to it.

EVOLVE 31

Drew Gulak vs. Timothy Thatcher ***
First time watching either of these two. Heard a lot of good things about both. Interesting match here. I do like technical wrestling, but I think it can be done with more flair than how this was. TJP's matches with O'Reilly & Del Sol show that. This was still good though, but lacked any real excitement.

Biff Busick vs. James Raideen **1/4
They really didn't do too much there. What they did was okay I guess, and a few of Busick's flurries make me think he's going to be somebody I like, but even for this short match it felt like not a lot happened. Raideen looked kind of clumsy in the ring, and apart from a nice lariat didn't impress me at all.

Dorado & Los Ben Dejos vs. De Leon & Juicy Product ***1/4
Fun little fast paced scramble match. Nothing special or anything, and basically just a spotfest, but it was quite a good one. It started out a little sloppy, but sured up mid way through and ended up being a fun match.

Matt Sydal vs. Johnny Gargano ***1/4
I was really looking forward to this match as Gargano is one of my favourites and Sydal is coming back to the indies with a lot of buzz, so this was pretty disappointing if I'm honest. It wasn't a bad match, but at no point did it feel anything special. I don't like trading kicks to the head in general, and there was a lot of that in this match. To go straight on offense after taking two straight superkicks really devalues the move for me.

Inner City Machine Guns vs. Premier Athlete Brand ***1/2
I'm a mark for ICMG, so it was no surprise I really liked this. Fun fast paced action with good purpose. Nese looked good, better than his PWG work, and Conley looked okay in my first time seeing him. The ending felt a tad abrupt though, and the Swann heat segment probably lasted too long, but overall this was some good shit.

Chris Hero vs. Drew Galloway ***
Well it was a good match, but nowhere near main event standard. Second worst match on the card. I don't know what NXT did to Hero, but he really hasn't been the same since his return to the indies. Out of the two, Drew definitely looked the better, and I'll be interested to see how he does. I was thinking he'd take a while to adjust back to the indies, so I'm surprised they'd put the strap on him. I'm confident he'll get there, he's a hell of a talent, but it's just a question how long he takes.


Overall this was a consistent show, but I wouldn't say it was a good one. It was solid at best. I'll pick up the other two shows, but if this is the standard, I won't be adding EVOLVE to my regular viewing. Commentary was pretty bad, lighting was absolutely awful, blinding you half the time, camera work wasn't great and the crowd was okay but small.

[ROHFan25]

Hoping to get a 32 and 33 review from you before I decide to buy

[Robareid]

I'll probably watch and have them up in the next week or so.

[DXvsNWO1994]

Out of the three shows, Evolve 32 is definitely the best one. A lot of good matches on that show. I would get Evolve 33 just for Johnny Gargano/Rich Swann in Evolution's End. It was the Match of the Weekend.

[Kenny]

What's happened to AR Fox? He wasn't on the last triple shot and he doesn't seem to be booked for NYC.

[DXvsNWO1994]

What's happened to AR Fox? He wasn't on the last triple shot and he doesn't seem to be booked for NYC.

He was sidelined with (If I recall correctly) a wrist injury which required surgery.

[Kenny]

He was sidelined with (If I recall correctly) a wrist injury which required surgery.

That would explain it! Thank you for the update. I was worried he left.

[DXvsNWO1994]

He was sidelined with (If I recall correctly) a wrist injury which required surgery.

That would explain it! Thank you for the update. I was worried he left.

No Problem! The injury also caused him to be pulled from PWG BOLA as well.

[DXvsNWO1994]

Ricochet vs. Uhaa Nation for the Dragon Gate USA Open The Freedom Gate Title has been announced for Evolve 35.

Also, here is the long awaited Evolve Rankings:

Open The Freedom Gate Champion
Ricochet
He stands on top of the WWNLive Family after the champion vs. champion match at EVOLVE 33

EVOLVE Champion Drew Galloway
The new champion won the title in a shocker during his first night in EVOLVE

1) Rich Swann
Easily secures top spot with wins over Chris Hero and Johnny Gargano, set for title shot

2) Timothy Thatcher
2-1 Record and Style Battle Tournament win put him at #2

3) Biff Busick
Style Battle runner up checks in right behind Thatcher with 2-1 Record

4) Matt Sydal
1-1 Record with two impressive, tough matches puts Sydal at #4

5) Chris Hero
Despite a losing 1-2 Record, Hero was in three grueling, competitive matches to earn this spot over remaining competitors

6) Anthony Nese
A quick, decisive win at EVOLVE 33 puts Nese ahead of the rest of the field

7) Caleb Konley
Normally a victory over Johnny Gargano and 1-1 Record would have put Konley at #5, but Nese's distraction at ringside in Gargano match drops Konley in ratings.

8) James Raideen
Powerful newcomer gets #8 spot over Gulak since he won in head-to-head competition

9) Drew Gulak
Good showing in Style Battle tournament including win over eventual winner, but 1-2 Record lands him at #9

10) Johnny Gargano
Gargano has been on a slide into madness since losing the Freedom Gate Title, but did he show some redemption at the end of EVOLVE 33?

[Ladrao12]

Sounds like Swann is getting a title shot at Evolve 34 or 35. I would love if Swann got a Freedom Gate shot at 34 and then an Evolve title shot at 35, but that might be much.

I honestly thought Konley would be higher in the ranking, and certainly didn't expect Thatcher/Busick to be so high.

[Sandy Fork]

These rankings seem a bit overcomplicated for the sake of being overcomplicated

[Robareid]

I think they're perfect. They're not restricting themselves too much like they had with the old record system so it allows them to book how they want and not be forced to elevate people they don't want to yet, but still has a sportsy/realish feel.

[Ladrao12]

2 new matches involving Zack Sabre Jr. booked for Evolve 34 & 35

Evolve 34 - Queens, NY
Zack Sabre Jr vs. Timothy Thatcher

Evolve 35 - Brooklyn, NY
Zack Sabre Jr vs. Biff Busick

Really looking forward to ZSJ v. Busick.