The WWE Thread

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supersonic
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Re: The WWE Thread

Post by supersonic » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:22 am

Oh of course. Just like Styles got totally buried losing the Reigns program last year.


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Re: The WWE Thread

Post by jordidebaas » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:28 am

famicommander wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:40 pm
still can't wrestle, and still can't cut a promo.
?
I was in the front line when we battled page 15

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Re: The WWE Thread

Post by Wilson » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:53 am

famicommander was referring to Reigns.

I didn't watch the match, but Joe losing to Brock in six and a half minutes sounds like tripe. I heard people say the match was good, but you know what was spectacular? Brock's twenty minute matches against Reigns and Punk. Brock can do longer matches, and excel in them, thus it's confusing why he would be showcased in matches that seem to want to hide any of his possible shortcomings.

If we're doing a Styles comparison, I thought Styles was booked/agented to be a dork in his matches against Reigns. They only course-corrected afterwards, which I suppose is what we all hope to see for Joe and is what this conversation is actually about: the main event post-mortem.

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Re: The WWE Thread

Post by famicommander » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:08 am

Didn't Styles lose clean to Ellsworth? More than once?

It's just such a waste. Styles in WWE is like giving Da Vinci water color paints and construction paper. Sure, Da Vinci probably still could have painted something cool, just like Styles can still diver despite WWE's limitations, but it's depressing knowing we aren't going to see anything the caliber of Styles vs Nakamura at WK or even Styles vs Lethal at Final Battle.

Give Da Vinci canvas and oil and stay out of his way. Give Styles great opponents and stay out of his way.

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Re: The WWE Thread

Post by supersonic » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:49 pm

Styles is currently the face of SmackDown and has been featured in a top program ever since coming out of WM32 weekend. There's an argument to be made that he and Shane were the brand's true top match for WM33.

If there has been a burial on the SmackDown brand in the past year, it has been the WWE Title, thanks in part to the mentioned Ellsworth saga, and now by clearly being defined down along with its current titleholder beneath Styles and the US Title, which is the true main event on the blue brand right now.

At this point with Joe, I expect him to face Cena at SummerSlam, Survivor Series, or WM34 all based on how much return on investment he's currently getting. (Obviously, Cena would put Joe over in the match just like he did with Punk, Danielson, Steen, and Styles, assuming it's not to set Cena up to face Reigns for a top title at WM34.) In fact, outside of actually crowning him, there could not be a more sincere apology from the company for leaving him off of WM33 entirely than the past 6 weeks of booking.

Lesnar vs. Joe is one of the hottest matches I've ever experienced in person, with the crowd incredibly hot and having me jump up and down like a child on multiple occasions. Lesnar absolutely loves working with Joe, and Reigns is coming across as a 3rd wheel at best in the meantime.

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Re: The WWE Thread

Post by Montana » Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:06 pm

I tend to agree that Reigns felt a bit like a 3rd wheel in the Lesnar vs. Joe feud. The Joe vs Lesnar match was great considering the time it last. Joe started strong and dominated most of the match. The crowd was super hyped, but Lesnar got the W. With Strowman beating Reigns at the last PPV, i thought the only logical match for Summerslam would be a 4 way between Lesnar, Reigns, Joe, Strowman. Would be an easy way to get the belt off Brock, and could continue storylines. Reigns getting a title shot after losing at the PPV before just doesn't make much sense.

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Re: The WWE Thread

Post by Big Red Machine » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:17 pm

supersonic wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:03 pm
Joe's stock has been elevated from this push. Everyone with a finger on the pulse has clearly explained why it's working.
All I've heard is bogus stuff about getting the rub from Brock. No one has been able to explain why it was a good idea for Joe to lose in well under ten minutes when they could have given us twenty minutes of one of the few legitimate dream matches left in pro wrestling.

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Re: The WWE Thread

Post by Thelone » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:28 am

No one wants to see Lesnar "sell the leg" and do meandering shit for 20+ minutes. Just let him and his opponent throw bombs for about 8-10 and there you go.
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Re: The WWE Thread

Post by supersonic » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:35 am

Listen to Fightful. Shake Them Ropes, MLW, The LAW, Voices of Wrestling, Solomonster, etc.

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Re: The WWE Thread

Post by Big Red Machine » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:56 am

Thelone wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:28 am
No one wants to see Lesnar "sell the leg" and do meandering shit for 20+ minutes. Just let him and his opponent throw bombs for about 8-10 and there you go.
I do. Or if not sell the leg then at least have a nice, long fight. This was a dream match and they squandered it. Also, at this point I have no faith in any Brock Lesnar match going long enough to be satisfying, so he's basically not a draw for me anymore.

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Re: The WWE Thread

Post by supersonic » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:40 pm

Put WM33 on and compare the crowd heat for Rollins vs. HHH to Goldberg vs. Lesnar. This formula is effective; Lesnar is a fighting game final boss, with key characteristics that whoever faces him must run through a gauntlet, and his arsenal is deadly enough to no longer need to have the variety it once had.

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Re: The WWE Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:45 pm

Big Red Machine wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:56 am
Thelone wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:28 am
No one wants to see Lesnar "sell the leg" and do meandering shit for 20+ minutes. Just let him and his opponent throw bombs for about 8-10 and there you go.
I do. Or if not sell the leg then at least have a nice, long fight. This was a dream match and they squandered it. Also, at this point I have no faith in any Brock Lesnar match going long enough to be satisfying, so he's basically not a draw for me anymore.
BLASPHEMER!

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Re: The WWE Thread

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:00 pm

The Jason Jordan/Kurt Angle revelation was the fucking worst idea. It's stupid. I hate it.

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Re: The WWE Thread

Post by Big Red Machine » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:00 am

supersonic wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:40 pm
Put WM33 on and compare the crowd heat for Rollins vs. HHH to Goldberg vs. Lesnar. This formula is effective; Lesnar is a fighting game final boss, with key characteristics that whoever faces him must run through a gauntlet, and his arsenal is deadly enough to no longer need to have the variety it once had.
I thought Hunter vs. Rollins was a far superior match, and most crowds nowadays a f*cking stupid. Did you hear those idiots on Raw last night? They chanted "YES!" when Rollins asked Ambrose if they could be friends again, then they chanted "YES!" when Ambrose was considering whether or not he should hit Seth with the chair and booed when he didn't. Those short attention-span motherf*ckers who can't appreciate a guy working a limb for twenty minutes can be ignored because it's not going to make them not come back next time. Building a match up as a f*cking dream match and basing almost all of the build for the PPV around this one match and then having it go less than ten minutes IS the sort of thing that will kill drawing power.

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Re: The WWE Thread

Post by supersonic » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:23 am

Psychology has to actually be magnetic in some way to actually matter. Lesnar has done something that HHH has lost - generate electrifying big match atmospheres. It's what makes Lesnar vs. Styles perhaps the ultimate crowd atmosphere dream match now.

VoW and Lapsed Fan podcasts perfectly shit in HHH for refusing to adjust to the times, while also gushing on the intense atmosphere that Goldberg and Lesnar were able to draw out of what appeared to be a drained Citrus Bowl. So the customers care more about chants, interactions, etc.? Find a way to draw them in like Lesnar, Styles, Cena, and Owens have.

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Re: The WWE Thread

Post by Thelone » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:27 am

Big Red Machine wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:00 am
I thought Hunter vs. Rollins was a far superior match, and most crowds nowadays a f*cking stupid. Did you hear those idiots on Raw last night? They chanted "YES!" when Rollins asked Ambrose if they could be friends again, then they chanted "YES!" when Ambrose was considering whether or not he should hit Seth with the chair and booed when he didn't. Those short attention-span motherf*ckers who can't appreciate a guy working a limb for twenty minutes can be ignored because it's not going to make them not come back next time. Building a match up as a f*cking dream match and basing almost all of the build for the PPV around this one match and then having it go less than ten minutes IS the sort of thing that will kill drawing power.
It's Lesnar (you know, the part-timer they're building up to be fed to Reigns at WM for his billionth coronation) vs. "Monster heel of the month" at fucking GREAT BALLS OF FIRE, did you seriously expect them to go long for THAT?
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Re: The WWE Thread

Post by Wilson » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:52 am

If we’re at the point where we’re just accepting a sub-seven-minute main event match, that’s one thing—a somewhat depressing thing--but there’s no reason to gladly accept an abbreviated version of what should’ve been a WWE MOTYC. Putting Samoa Joe and Brock Lesnar at a stage like SummerSlam--benefit of hindsight being that Joe is a capable enough storyteller for the audience to buy this as a major PPV match--in a fifteen to twenty minute match tells a better match and leaves both of them the better for it.

The faux-Strong Style thing they do for Brock, and kinda sorta Goldberg, I think, is wearing pretty thin about now. It made NJPW a sore #2 when they were doing that in the 90s.


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Re: The WWE Thread

Post by supersonic » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:00 am


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Re: The WWE Thread

Post by Thelone » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:45 pm

Wilson wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:52 am
If we’re at the point where we’re just accepting a sub-seven-minute main event match, that’s one thing—a somewhat depressing thing--but there’s no reason to gladly accept an abbreviated version of what should’ve been a WWE MOTYC. Putting Samoa Joe and Brock Lesnar at a stage like SummerSlam--benefit of hindsight being that Joe is a capable enough storyteller for the audience to buy this as a major PPV match--in a fifteen to twenty minute match tells a better match and leaves both of them the better for it.
But that's the thing : it wasn't a SummerSlam or WM, just a random B-level PPV with a stupid name.
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