The WWE Thread

[Mattxx87]

While I understand your frustration, we need to see if they call some sort of audible on RAW. If not, abandon ship.

Secondly, there is a precedent for this. Anyone remember Zack Ryder? No? Well there you go. Remember when the WWE Headquarters received 170,000 calls from all across the country one night because of a video that went viral one night? They received so many calls, their voice messaging system was literally shut down. That many people called and told them to "Push Zack Ryder!" or were saying "WOO WOO WOO" and stuff. Backstage reports were that the company legitimately trolled him and didn't use him during a Long Island show in June 2012, even though the crowd was chanting for him outside and in the arena for hours. Foley was PISSED. The response he got at Survivor Series in 2012 on New York City is legendary. And they didn't pull the trigger on his US Title win until the next month and the response was absolutely nothing. *THEN* they blamed him and Bryan for low ratings on New Years Eve in 2011, completely ignoring the fact it was the holiday season, and aborted his US Title run and then jobbed him out to Kane.

So we shouldn't give the WWE a pass on this one. They've done this before. I personally am glad I didn't spend the $60 on the Rumble and I really really wanted to, but I decided to pass. *NOW*, I will not buying the WWE Network or Wrestlemania in complete protest of this. It's like they threw balls of shit and bags of piss at the fans. Why should I support them? WHY. That's the question tens if not hundreds of thousands of fans will be asking themselves after tonight.

[DXvsNWO1994]

While I understand your frustration, we need to see if they call some sort of audible on RAW. If not, abandon ship.

Secondly, there is a precedent for this. Anyone remember Zack Ryder? No? Well there you go. Remember when the WWE Headquarters received 170,000 calls from all across the country one night because of a video that went viral one night? They received so many calls, their voice messaging system was literally shut down. That many people called and told them to "Push Zack Ryder!" or were saying "WOO WOO WOO" and stuff. Backstage reports were that the company legitimately trolled him and didn't use him during a Long Island show in June 2012, even though the crowd was chanting for him outside and in the arena for hours. Foley was PISSED. The response he got at Survivor Series in 2012 on New York City is legendary. And they didn't pull the trigger on his US Title win until the next month and the response was absolutely nothing. *THEN* they blamed him and Bryan for low ratings on New Years Eve in 2011, completely ignoring the fact it was the holiday season, and aborted his US Title run and then jobbed him out to Kane.

So we shouldn't give the WWE a pass on this one. They've done this before. I personally am glad I didn't spend the $60 on the Rumble and I really really wanted to, but I decided to pass. *NOW*, I will not buying the WWE Network or Wrestlemania in complete protest of this. It's like they threw balls of shit and bags of piss at the fans. Why should I support them? WHY. That's the question tens if not hundreds of thousands of fans will be asking themselves after tonight.

I think Zack Ryder and Daniel Bryan are two different situations. With Ryder, he was a guy just trying to get back on TV. Nobody thought he would be a World Champion level guy. The audience just wanted to see Zach Ryder on TV and get a push, which he got when he won the US Title (though it sadly didn't last and he's now back to jobber status). Despite his popularity, even at it's zenith, Ryder was never going to be above the mid-card.

Daniel Bryan is a main event level talent by this point. He's pretty much the most over guy in wrestling at the moment. WWE gave us a brief taste with those two title runs at the end of the summer and now we want more. People want to see Bryan as the World Champion, in a real title run. Plus his "YES!" Chant is starting to transcend the wrestling world, so not giving him the ball is head scratching.

[Mattxx87]

I will also say there is even more precedent with this.

I was at Survivor Series 2008 in Boston when they were testing the waters for a Jeff Hardy WWE Title run. Before the show even started Lillian Garcia said that Jeff Hardy was found unconscious and wouldn't make it (we feared the worst for them to announce that before the show even went live, especially with his prior problems). The HHH/Kozlov match got PANNED (one of the audible voices you can hear on the DVD is my own, , I yelled "BOOORING" for a good 60-90 seconds very loudly across a dead quiet arena about 10 minutes in. Check it out). We were chanting "WE WANT HARDY" over and over and then Vickie came out and said "Ladies and gentlemen, HES HERE" and the arena went BONKERS!!!!!! Anyone that was there live can agree the Boston Garden was shaking. I couldn't hold my phone to take pictures. I couldn't hear my cousin talking next to me.

And then the company swerved us by giving us Edge.

Three weeks later at Armageddon, they put the the WWE title on Jeff Hardy and once again the response was less than stellar. Then they booked him like a chump and took the title off him immediately.

Lets not even start with Christian winning the title at Extreme Rules in 2011.

AND I CAN NOT UNDERSTAND WHY THE COMPANY ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT CAPITALIZE ON GIVING PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT like it's some kind of joke to NOT give them what they want over and over.

There is just so much history with the company doing this. So much. It's starting to, or is already at the point of, creating long term damage. I think last nights show was FINALLY the crowd stepping up and saying "We're not going to take this anymore, no more Cena, no more Orton, and here's who we want!" I'm tired of this yo-yo of "We're going to push Bryan, no we're not, yes we are, no we're not, yes we are"

[Ladrao12]

Honestly, if you didn't see Batista winning as the outcome, then you may be blind, physically or by your own personal views. The moment he came back, set his sights on Orton, he was going to win the rumble. I don't like it, but it is what it is. I still follow the WWE, but truthfully am not too invested in it, for obvious reasons.

The only highlights of the night were Bryan vs. Wyatt and Roman Reigns coming off ridiculously strong in the rumble.

[Hellfont93]

Honestly, if you didn't see Batista winning as the outcome, then you may be blind, physically or by your own personal views. The moment he came back, set his sights on Orton, he was going to win the rumble. I don't like it, but it is what it is. I still follow the WWE, but truthfully am not too invested in it, for obvious reasons.

The only highlights of the night were Bryan vs. Wyatt and Roman Reigns coming off ridiculously strong in the rumble.

Pretty much agree with all of that. The crowd just wanted Bryan - instead they got Orton/Cena, Batista & Rey Mysterio. I REALLY hope they don't give us Bryan/Sheamus again.

[Mattxx87]

Honestly, if you didn't see Batista winning as the outcome, then you may be blind, physically or by your own personal views. The moment he came back, set his sights on Orton, he was going to win the rumble. I don't like it, but it is what it is.

People aren't mad that he won. I have to question if you're blind, haha. People are furious that THEIR MOST POPULAR WRESTLER WASNT EVEN IN THE ROYAL RUMBLE AND LOST EARLIER IN THE NIGHT. Instead they had time for El Torito, JBL, Kevin Nash, R-Truth, and the Great Khali. Get the eff out of here with all of those guys. They literally wasted all of those spots. Are people mad Bryan didn't win? Of course. But they are absolutely appalled he wasn't even used, and some scrub 45 year old wash out movie star who couldn't get speaking parts steroid user who wore out his welcome in 2008 (and stayed until 2010) won after coming back six days ago.

First The Rock ends Punk's title reign, and now Batista wins the Rumble. Its destructive hot shot booking for Wrestlemania PPV buys so they can tell their stock holders everything is candy land. When infact, no one buys the other 11 which is why they're giving them away for free on the Network.

[supersonic]

I am amazed that wrestling fans who think they know everything cannot understand a company going with safe and proven commodities during a time of great risk. It's not like WWE has a revolutionary online network launch or new TV deal negotiations on the horizon. Clearly the live fans in attendance are the only masters that this nine-to-ten figure publicly traded company should be listening to.

[Sardonic Artery]

I'll copy and paste my response to the Foley tweet:

Never been so disgusted with a PPV? I can think of several worse. Ones with death, 90-second main events, and anything involving most celebrities (Cyndi Lauper, Karl Malone, and, God help us all, David Arquette). Did I mention death?

Still, the answer to Foley's question is yes.

[Mattxx87]

I am amazed that wrestling fans who think they know everything cannot understand a company going with safe and proven commodities during a time of great risk. It's not like WWE has a revolutionary online network launch or new TV deal negotiations on the horizon. Clearly the live fans in attendance are the only masters that this nine-to-ten figure publicly traded company should be listening to.

Fun Fact: The Ultimate Warrior won the 1998 Royal Rumble, and Steve Austin wasn't used at all. You see, the fans once loved the Ultimate Warrior and he drew massive ratings and gates at live events. Steve Austin fizzled out in WCW, couldn't draw. Had a couple shots with mid-card titles, even tag teamed with Brian Pillman, but he never got over. He's brought in to the WWF, given a stupid gimmick and joins the Million Dollar Corporation. He loses to Savio Vega. Austin reaches the finals of the 1996 KOTR tournament, and loses to former huge star Jake Roberts because Jake is an established name! Austin has to pay his dues. Fans don't give two shits. His black trunks and bald head weren't what people wanted to see. Sure, after a while he got great reactions for having good matches with Bret Hart in late 1996 and 1997. And his merchandise sold well, but, he couldn't be the face of the company! He was too small. Didn't have that "look", and ratings in 1998 could have been credited to Ultimate Warrior's return six days before the 1998 Royal Rumble, Shawn Michaels, Triple H, The Rock, Undertaker, and the fallout of the Montreal Screwjob. (See how displacement reasoning can be used to completely discredit someone?)

Does anyone truly realize this is how the rise of Stone Cold Steve Austin could have gone using the same exact logic? The Austin/McMahon rivalry never happens. WCW absolutely kills WWF in 1998 because WCW establishes huge new stars in DDP, Booker T, and they steal away The Rock for a far more lucrative contract than anything Vince could have paid him at the time. Sting and Bret Hart have a great rivalry over the WCW Heavyweight Championship! Goldberg stomps a mudhole in everyones ass, Hogan/Goldberg happens on PPV with a proper build. The WWF, which made far too many mistakes, files for bankruptcy in August 1999...

Did that happen? For the love of God, thankfully no, but it could have. Replace Stone Cold with Daniel Bryan. That's what people are mad about. Stone Cold took the ball and he ran with it. He made millions of dollars. The company took a chance. And it paid off HUGE. Taking a chance on Daniel Bryan isn't a huge risk. He's wildly over, and "YES" chants frequent every sports game and every college bar all over the country. HE IS A HOUSEHOLD NAME. Just wait for the Super Bowl when 70,000 people are chanting YES people a player does it after a touchdown....

[Ladrao12]

Honestly, if you didn't see Batista winning as the outcome, then you may be blind, physically or by your own personal views. The moment he came back, set his sights on Orton, he was going to win the rumble. I don't like it, but it is what it is.

People aren't mad that he won. I have to question if you're blind, haha. People are furious that THEIR MOST POPULAR WRESTLER WASNT EVEN IN THE ROYAL RUMBLE AND LOST EARLIER IN THE NIGHT. Instead they had time for El Torito, JBL, Kevin Nash, R-Truth, and the Great Khali. Get the eff out of here with all of those guys. They literally wasted all of those spots. Are people mad Bryan didn't win? Of course. But they are absolutely appalled he wasn't even used, and some scrub 45 year old wash out movie star who couldn't get speaking parts steroid user who wore out his welcome in 2008 (and stayed until 2010) won after coming back six days ago.

First The Rock ends Punk's title reign, and now Batista wins the Rumble. Its destructive hot shot booking for Wrestlemania PPV buys so they can tell their stock holders everything is candy land. When infact, no one buys the other 11 which is why they're giving them away for free on the Network.

No, I definitely understand that people were upset about Bryan not being in the rumble at all, but the icing on the complaint cake was Batista winning as well. It's a mess, for sure. It's the reason I can't get involved with the WWE too much, if they're not going to show me things I want to see, or even interesting things.

[Colt45]

I've got to say under first impression the opener was one of the best I've seen. I thought it came off looking a little like IYH Mindgames 96, and that's a good thing because that match also rocked. Like HBK, Bryan mixed his usual athletic offense with a side of brutality, not a usual staple for the wrestler. Examples being, Shawn trampling on Mankind's fingers, and Bryan curb-stomping Wyatt's head Super Dragon style. The similarities continue with the antagonist of the match looking and wrestling like a looney asshole- Foley tearing his hair out and using using the mandible claw, Bray biting the hand to break a submission. And the exorcist bit? Weirdest wrestling shit I've seen in a long time, maybe since idk, Mankind talking to Jim Cornette's rat?

Seriously I think this was and will be the best match Wyatt will have this year, but I wouldn't be surprised it is not. If Bray can settle into working matches like that, and not just with powerhouses like Bryan, then I think he can fill the void wrestlers like Mankind left. Just seeing Wyatt go over those stairs with no concern for his wellbeing gave me flashbacks. Shudders.

****1/4
Four and a quarter star match and my MOTY for 2k14.

As for the rest of the show I can sum up my thoughts much quicker.

1) I like the Brock and Show segment but I thought the chair assault took kind of long. One thing I miss about chair shots to the head is that you could do a one and done.

2) I skipped through some of Cena/Orton. It didn't look like a bad match just not what I wanted to see.

3) The rumble was pretty bad overall. I liked the idea of the Shield getting most of the eliminations, with Roman being the breakout star. That worked. The problem is that he was matched at the end with Batista who at that point everyone knew was going over. I don't think Reigns had to be the last guy in there with Batista, as he got the most eliminations, ejected from his group, and looked like a beast. It comes off like overbooking (to me). As for who should have been in the last with Batista if he had to win, I would have kept Punk until the end. They had great chemistry before and would have left a little bit of unpredictability in the final two.

[DBSommer]

I'm not worried about Danielson, as the cream does always rise to the top.

Actually cream always spoils when left unused.

Which of these trite sayings is more applicable to the situation?

And the thing is, since Vince has a monopoly, he can not only leave the cream in the fridge, he can offer up a big shit sandwich for you to eat, and if you want wrestling, you're going to eat it, and he knows it.

So what lingering flavor do you have in your mouth?

[ROHFanAnthony]

I didn't order the Royal Rumble(thank God), but after reading about it, I must say Mick Foley is right. WWE does hate their audience. Love their money, but they don't love the audience.

[supersonic]

I am amazed that wrestling fans who think they know everything cannot understand a company going with safe and proven commodities during a time of great risk. It's not like WWE has a revolutionary online network launch or new TV deal negotiations on the horizon. Clearly the live fans in attendance are the only masters that this nine-to-ten figure publicly traded company should be listening to.

Fun Fact: The Ultimate Warrior won the 1998 Royal Rumble, and Steve Austin wasn't used at all. You see, the fans once loved the Ultimate Warrior and he drew massive ratings and gates at live events. Steve Austin fizzled out in WCW, couldn't draw. Had a couple shots with mid-card titles, even tag teamed with Brian Pillman, but he never got over. He's brought in to the WWF, given a stupid gimmick and joins the Million Dollar Corporation. He loses to Savio Vega. Austin reaches the finals of the 1996 KOTR tournament, and loses to former huge star Jake Roberts because Jake is an established name! Austin has to pay his dues. Fans don't give two shits. His black trunks and bald head weren't what people wanted to see. Sure, after a while he got great reactions for having good matches with Bret Hart in late 1996 and 1997. And his merchandise sold well, but, he couldn't be the face of the company! He was too small. Didn't have that "look", and ratings in 1998 could have been credited to Ultimate Warrior's return six days before the 1998 Royal Rumble, Shawn Michaels, Triple H, The Rock, Undertaker, and the fallout of the Montreal Screwjob. (See how displacement reasoning can be used to completely discredit someone?)

Does anyone truly realize this is how the rise of Stone Cold Steve Austin could have gone using the same exact logic? The Austin/McMahon rivalry never happens. WCW absolutely kills WWF in 1998 because WCW establishes huge new stars in DDP, Booker T, and they steal away The Rock for a far more lucrative contract than anything Vince could have paid him at the time. Sting and Bret Hart have a great rivalry over the WCW Heavyweight Championship! Goldberg stomps a mudhole in everyones ass, Hogan/Goldberg happens on PPV with a proper build. The WWF, which made far too many mistakes, files for bankruptcy in August 1999...

Did that happen? For the love of God, thankfully no, but it could have. Replace Stone Cold with Daniel Bryan. That's what people are mad about. Stone Cold took the ball and he ran with it. He made millions of dollars. The company took a chance. And it paid off HUGE. Taking a chance on Daniel Bryan isn't a huge risk. He's wildly over, and "YES" chants frequent every sports game and every college bar all over the country. HE IS A HOUSEHOLD NAME. Just wait for the Super Bowl when 70,000 people are chanting YES people a player does it after a touchdown....

Austin was a significantly bigger merch seller and ratings mover in 1997 than Danielson is in 2014. Also at the time, WWE had no choice but to take a risk of pushing him with competition kicking their asses in the ratings for a year and a half.

Batista is the kind of talent that will get fans who gave on the PG era a chance during WM season. He also is likely a name that corporate and television executives have more faith in. Right now is the time to play it safe to not only convince the casuals to order the Network for WM, but also to have as much leverage as possible for the upcoming TV deal negotiations.

But keep crying about it though and think that WWE should only cater to the live audience and smark portions. In the meantime, I'm going to enjoy Danielson getting significant TV time every week and stealing the show on PPVs/supercards regardless of his spot at WM.

[Mattxx87]

Because why listen to the FANS when the corporate and television executives know everything there is to know about what a wrestling company should do!

That's like how Walmart never listens to the customers and just keeps on trucking without giving two fucks.

That's because the amount of upset customers, raging protestors, and politicians that want to stop what they're doing to help people get paid better and treated better,, is significantly lower than the amount of customers who don't care and just want their .64 can of green beans, and politicians who can be bought off to shut up.

Money and influence can solve any problem, and if not, you just ignore it and hope it goes away.

[supersonic]

Welcome to grownup land. Enjoy your stay.

WWE is playing it safe as to make sure to maximize the rights fees for the next TV deal. I am not worried that Danielson will be doomed, he will continue to be a key player on the WWE roster and with a PPV in Seattle right after NOLA, I'm sure he'll be in a major match, if not the main event of that show for the hometown crowd factor, especially since at that time PPV buyrates will no longer be a major priority.

[Mattxx87]

Welcome to grownup land. Enjoy your stay.

That's not an acceptable defense. That is a corporate cop-out and plain ignorance when you (generally speaking) know you're wrong.

[supersonic]

Welcome to grownup land. Enjoy your stay.

That's not an acceptable defense. That is a corporate cop-out and plain ignorance when you (generally speaking) know you're wrong.

Actually, it's me being rational and laughing at you for how immature you're being about this just because the company isn't catering to a certain fanboy demographic's fantasy book desires.

The way these smarks are reacting is VERY similar to the whiners here in Seattle that bitch about the Sonics not being back yet.

[Mattxx87]

Pittsburgh isn't a "smart" city. This was completely organic out of bad taste, not because a bunch of fans conspired to mess up the the PPV.

Miami, Chicago, Toronto, New York, and Manchester (England)are "smart crowds". Pittsburgh has never had this sort of outrage and protest or vocal out pouring before.

[supersonic]

Cool protest. Too bad those fans already put their $ in WWE's pocket and it will very likely not equate to losing business from the casuals that tend to tune in for the familiar names this time of year.