The NJPW Thread

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Re: The NJPW Thread - G1 Climax

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:52 am

famicommander wrote:
Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:46 am
Tama Tonga is having a fantastic run right now. He has really come into his own as a character.
Agreed. He's light years better than he was 2 years ago even.

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Re: The NJPW Thread - G1 Climax

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:34 pm

EVIL is having a respectable showing in the G1. Another guy that has improved a lot in the past few years.

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Re: The NJPW Thread - G1 Climax

Post by Wilson » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:29 am

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:
Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:34 pm
EVIL is having a respectable showing in the G1. Another guy that has improved a lot in the past few years.
I would also put it in the respectable/solid category. EVIL seems like he will sooner rather than later assume the role that Goto plays now. More than his progress in-ring, I want his Party City/K-mart/sex shop paraphernalia thing to stop.

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Re: The NJPW Thread - G1 Climax

Post by Big Red Machine » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:16 pm

So Naito hits Ishii with his finisher and not only does Ishii not sell it, but Naito does start to sell. .HOW F*CKING STUPID CAN YOU GET?! Imagine if Okada hit someone with the Rainmaker and they took this huge bump for it, but then popped right back up while Okada collapsed in pain. It’d be f*cking idiotic. IF SOMEONE HITS YOU WITH A MOVE, YOU SELL IT! It’s not a difficult concept to grasp!
And now f*cking Meltzer is going to put this over for being so fighting spirit strong style OMFG I LOVE NEW JAPAN SO MUCH and he’s going to give this match *****************3/4 and then a bunch of Meltzer-mark indy dorks are going to start doing it and now every f*cking indy show I watch that isn’t EVOLVE or CHIKARA is going to have two or three different matches where guys are hitting their own finishers as ass-backwards transition spots. Without that one stupid spot, I would have given this, like, an 8.75/10. Why is it so difficult for people nowadays to just have good professional wrestling matches where everything makes sense?

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Re: The NJPW Thread - G1 Climax

Post by Wilson » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:41 pm

It was intended to be countered into a stunner by Ishii--which harkens back to Ishii countering Omega's finisher with the same move--though obviously mistimed and given no favors by the camera. The spot didn't look good, but it wasn't an earth-shattering botch either.

In other words: obvious attempt at Ishii-flaming is obvious.

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Re: The NJPW Thread - G1 Climax

Post by King of Indy Style » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:15 pm

Take a pill. It was a botch.

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Re: The NJPW Thread - G1 Climax

Post by Big Red Machine » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:12 pm

I didn't seem like a botch to me, nor to the first few people I talked to. I really, truly thought that the spot was the spot. As for flaming, I've actually been going out of my way in my reviews (posted over on TheWrestlingRevolution.com cheap plug) to put Ishii over for toning down the stupid no-selling over the past year or so. If I was flaming anyone in that post, it was in the second paragraph.
But based on the man's history, can you blame me for thinking that the spot went exactly as they intended?

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Re: The NJPW Thread - G1 Climax

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:18 pm

Big Red Machine wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:16 pm
So Naito hits Ishii with his finisher and not only does Ishii not sell it, but Naito does start to sell. .HOW F*CKING STUPID CAN YOU GET?! Imagine if Okada hit someone with the Rainmaker and they took this huge bump for it, but then popped right back up while Okada collapsed in pain. It’d be f*cking idiotic. IF SOMEONE HITS YOU WITH A MOVE, YOU SELL IT! It’s not a difficult concept to grasp!
And now f*cking Meltzer is going to put this over for being so fighting spirit strong style OMFG I LOVE NEW JAPAN SO MUCH and he’s going to give this match *****************3/4 and then a bunch of Meltzer-mark indy dorks are going to start doing it and now every f*cking indy show I watch that isn’t EVOLVE or CHIKARA is going to have two or three different matches where guys are hitting their own finishers as ass-backwards transition spots. Without that one stupid spot, I would have given this, like, an 8.75/10. Why is it so difficult for people nowadays to just have good professional wrestling matches where everything makes sense?
I must profess... I love BRM meltdowns.

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Re: The NJPW Thread - G1 Climax

Post by Wilson » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:57 pm

Big Red Machine wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:12 pm
I didn't seem like a botch to me, nor to the first few people I talked to. I really, truly thought that the spot was the spot. As for flaming, I've actually been going out of my way in my reviews (posted over on TheWrestlingRevolution.com cheap plug) to put Ishii over for toning down the stupid no-selling over the past year or so. If I was flaming anyone in that post, it was in the second paragraph.
But based on the man's history, can you blame me for thinking that the spot went exactly as they intended?
Oh please. I think I recognize an "NJPW is in league with the WON" plot when I see it.
/all very lighthearted jokes about your history with Ishii/selling in New Japan
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:18 pm
I must profess... I love BRM meltdowns.
Definitely better than the source text of this message board at the moment.

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Re: The NJPW Thread - G1 Climax

Post by Big Red Machine » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:42 am

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:18 pm
Big Red Machine wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:16 pm
So Naito hits Ishii with his finisher and not only does Ishii not sell it, but Naito does start to sell. .HOW F*CKING STUPID CAN YOU GET?! Imagine if Okada hit someone with the Rainmaker and they took this huge bump for it, but then popped right back up while Okada collapsed in pain. It’d be f*cking idiotic. IF SOMEONE HITS YOU WITH A MOVE, YOU SELL IT! It’s not a difficult concept to grasp!
And now f*cking Meltzer is going to put this over for being so fighting spirit strong style OMFG I LOVE NEW JAPAN SO MUCH and he’s going to give this match *****************3/4 and then a bunch of Meltzer-mark indy dorks are going to start doing it and now every f*cking indy show I watch that isn’t EVOLVE or CHIKARA is going to have two or three different matches where guys are hitting their own finishers as ass-backwards transition spots. Without that one stupid spot, I would have given this, like, an 8.75/10. Why is it so difficult for people nowadays to just have good professional wrestling matches where everything makes sense?
I must profess... I love BRM meltdowns.
Well... so long as things that deteriorate my own mental health are good for the mental health of others, I see no harm in them.


I still want to finish watching ROH Unauthorized to finish several big rants in there that I think are very good examples of the difference between the new ROH and the old ROH. Also, I want to see the Silas vs. Lethal match.

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Re: The NJPW Thread - G1 Climax

Post by Big Red Machine » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:43 am

Wilson wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:57 pm
Big Red Machine wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:12 pm
I didn't seem like a botch to me, nor to the first few people I talked to. I really, truly thought that the spot was the spot. As for flaming, I've actually been going out of my way in my reviews (posted over on TheWrestlingRevolution.com cheap plug) to put Ishii over for toning down the stupid no-selling over the past year or so. If I was flaming anyone in that post, it was in the second paragraph.
But based on the man's history, can you blame me for thinking that the spot went exactly as they intended?
Oh please. I think I recognize an "NJPW is in league with the WON" plot when I see it.
/all very lighthearted jokes about your history with Ishii/selling in New Japan
Not "in league with." Just Dave being Dave.

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Re: The NJPW Thread - G1 Climax

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:09 pm

I don't have a subscription to NJPW. I am hearing good things about Ibushi/Tanahashi. Thoughts on that match and others? I appreciate it.

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Re: The NJPW Thread - G1 Climax

Post by Wilson » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:11 am

Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:09 pm
I don't have a subscription to NJPW. I am hearing good things about Ibushi/Tanahashi. Thoughts on that match and others? I appreciate it.
I haven’t seen Ibushi/Tanahashi yet either, but I can give a rough order of my favorite matches so far:

Ibushi/Naito
Okada/Elgin
Omega/Elgin
Okada/Kojima
Tanahasi/Sabre
Ishii/Ibushi
Tanahashi/Nagata
Yoshi-Hashi/Nagata

If you have the extra cash, it's definitely worth spending $10 for the tournament. The finals are essentially confirmed to have either Omega or Okada as a participant.

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Re: The NJPW Thread - G1 Climax

Post by Big Red Machine » Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:53 pm

Omega vs. EVIL should be added to that list. Best match of the tournament so far, IMO.

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Re: The NJPW Thread - G1 Climax

Post by Wilson » Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:20 pm

Big Red Machine wrote:
Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:53 pm
Omega vs. EVIL should be added to that list. Best match of the tournament so far, IMO.
You weren't kidding. What an incredibly physical and gutsy match, especially in the middle of the tour. I was aware that there would be a high spot during the match, but it was a difficult watch after it was clear that EVIL had a resulting concussion. Kenny was doing well in protecting EVIL's head until the end of the match, which really confirmed EVIL's injury. I'm not sure how comfortable I feel about EVIL facing Okada on August 5, honestly.

Finally, to answer Mojo's earlier question, Ibushi vs. Tanahashi was good but perhaps already overshadowed by some other great matches in the tournament. Ishii vs. Nagata might have actually been the better match that night.

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Re: The NJPW Thread - G1 Climax

Post by Mr. Mojo Risin » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:54 am

I can't believe I am posting this... I admittedly enjoy Mike Elgin more in NJPW than I ever had in ROH. Why is this?

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Re: The NJPW Thread - G1 Climax

Post by ROHfan2002 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:21 am

I have just finished day five of the tournament and am loving this as much as anything I've seen in pro wrestling in the last decade. I've been one of the biggest defenders of ROH on this forum since the Cornette era, but after just five days of this 19 day tournament, I've already decided I'm giving up on Ring of Honor for the rest of 2017 at least. After seeing these 20 men putting out excellent matches, I simply cannot go back to ROH at this time. Since I'm paying for Floslam, I'll probably watch Evolve still, but that might disappear from my view list also. My first G1, but this has been simply incredible, and I've still got 14 more shows to go! If you love pro wrestling, and you can afford ten bucks a month, you absolutely have to get NJPW World and watch this tournament. No excuses.

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Re: The NJPW Thread - G1 Climax

Post by Wilson » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:13 am

ROHfan2002 wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:21 am
I have just finished day five of the tournament and am loving this as much as anything I've seen in pro wrestling in the last decade. I've been one of the biggest defenders of ROH on this forum since the Cornette era, but after just five days of this 19 day tournament, I've already decided I'm giving up on Ring of Honor for the rest of 2017 at least. After seeing these 20 men putting out excellent matches, I simply cannot go back to ROH at this time. Since I'm paying for Floslam, I'll probably watch Evolve still, but that might disappear from my view list also. My first G1, but this has been simply incredible, and I've still got 14 more shows to go! If you love pro wrestling, and you can afford ten bucks a month, you absolutely have to get NJPW World and watch this tournament. No excuses.
This year has been an amazing tournament. Even if you don’t catch up to date before the block finals and proper final, I recommend watching those as close to the August 11-13 dates as possible. Try your best to get to those before they are spoiled.
Mr. Mojo Risin wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:54 am
I can't believe I am posting this... I admittedly enjoy Mike Elgin more in NJPW than I ever had in ROH. Why is this?
I think Elgin is just a big arena wrestler. Those years in which the IWC cast aspersions about his being indy/ersatz puroresu are slowly being expozed. In my eyes, he’s become the company’s #5 or #6, which is a big position.

Also, patiently waiting for Big Red to confirm if he has a new favorite match of the tournament. EVIL vs. Okada was unbelievable. Big, big, big fight feel to that match. Glad EVIL didn’t appear--at least--to be too banged up.

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Re: The NJPW Thread - G1 Climax

Post by ROHfan2002 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:14 am

Big Red Machine wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:16 pm
So Naito hits Ishii with his finisher and not only does Ishii not sell it, but Naito does start to sell. .HOW F*CKING STUPID CAN YOU GET?! Imagine if Okada hit someone with the Rainmaker and they took this huge bump for it, but then popped right back up while Okada collapsed in pain. It’d be f*cking idiotic. IF SOMEONE HITS YOU WITH A MOVE, YOU SELL IT! It’s not a difficult concept to grasp!
And now f*cking Meltzer is going to put this over for being so fighting spirit strong style OMFG I LOVE NEW JAPAN SO MUCH and he’s going to give this match *****************3/4 and then a bunch of Meltzer-mark indy dorks are going to start doing it and now every f*cking indy show I watch that isn’t EVOLVE or CHIKARA is going to have two or three different matches where guys are hitting their own finishers as ass-backwards transition spots. Without that one stupid spot, I would have given this, like, an 8.75/10. Why is it so difficult for people nowadays to just have good professional wrestling matches where everything makes sense?
Not sure what you watched. It was very clear to me, without knowing about it beforehand, that Ishii reversed. It wasn't botched. Camera angle wasn't the best, but it was easily identifiable as a reversal by Ishii that hurt Naito. Yet you rant about it?

As much as you complained about this reversal, I'm seriously hoping you hate most Young Buck matches, or anything done by PWG, or hell most ROH matches. Because "IF SOMEONE HITS YOU WITH A MOVE, YOU SELL IT!" is a concept that doesn't happen in almost any match for the Bucks, PWG, or most ROH nowadays.

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Re: The NJPW Thread - G1 Climax

Post by Big Red Machine » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:52 pm

ROHfan2002 wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:14 am
Big Red Machine wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:16 pm
So Naito hits Ishii with his finisher and not only does Ishii not sell it, but Naito does start to sell. .HOW F*CKING STUPID CAN YOU GET?! Imagine if Okada hit someone with the Rainmaker and they took this huge bump for it, but then popped right back up while Okada collapsed in pain. It’d be f*cking idiotic. IF SOMEONE HITS YOU WITH A MOVE, YOU SELL IT! It’s not a difficult concept to grasp!
And now f*cking Meltzer is going to put this over for being so fighting spirit strong style OMFG I LOVE NEW JAPAN SO MUCH and he’s going to give this match *****************3/4 and then a bunch of Meltzer-mark indy dorks are going to start doing it and now every f*cking indy show I watch that isn’t EVOLVE or CHIKARA is going to have two or three different matches where guys are hitting their own finishers as ass-backwards transition spots. Without that one stupid spot, I would have given this, like, an 8.75/10. Why is it so difficult for people nowadays to just have good professional wrestling matches where everything makes sense?
Not sure what you watched. It was very clear to me, without knowing about it beforehand, that Ishii reversed. It wasn't botched. Camera angle wasn't the best, but it was easily identifiable as a reversal by Ishii that hurt Naito. Yet you rant about it?

As much as you complained about this reversal, I'm seriously hoping you hate most Young Buck matches, or anything done by PWG, or hell most ROH matches. Because "IF SOMEONE HITS YOU WITH A MOVE, YOU SELL IT!" is a concept that doesn't happen in almost any match for the Bucks, PWG, or most ROH nowadays.
I have ranted about the stuff in PWG in the past. I usually dislike the Bucks as well, and do think the quality of the matches in ROH has significantly deteriorated- and mostly because the wrestlers are trying to copy the PWG spotfest style. Ishii in particular boils my blood because he takes it to the next level. In PWG it's just bad selling. With Ishii, not selling things is his signature spot. Like the PWG stuff there is very little psychology to it, and yet people go gaga over it, and the reason escapes me. I think Dave and others have a MAJOR double standard where they'll say "well, the crowd loved it" in Japan (and with the Ishii/Shibata style in particular) but would never extend that courtesy to, say, TNA, or a deathmatch promotion. I remember one point (I think it was the Ishii-Makabe Dominion match a few years ago) where Dave was saying that Ishii was botching moves and then started to roll over backwards to come up with this cockamamie theory that Ishii was blowing spots on purpose to make us all think that he was legit hurt when really he wasn't and oh what a genius Ishii is.
Now throw in the spots where he just stands there and lets the other guy hit him and it's like he's forgotten that he's supposed to be trying to win a wrestling match. The goal of pro wrestling is to have a simulated competition and tell a story. With guys like Ishii and Shibata it often feels like they've forgotten that and instead of trying to get the match over, their goal is to show us all how shoot tough they are by taking these shots to the head and not selling them at all. It's not about the characters and the wrestling anymore but about the men themselves.

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