The WWE Thread

[syxxpakk]

Its now going to be Punk vs. Ziggler at The Rumble for the title. I'm pretty sure SOMEONE out there will be "paying" to see that match on PPV. #justsayin'.

The Rumble is the main draw for that PPV. That's why usually guys like Ziggler (last year against Edge) and Hardcore Holly (against Brock back in '04) get big title matches on the show.

But you're right, there will be a small number of fans who will buy it to see CM Punk vs. Dolph Ziggler. It's not going to be a make or break number, though. Punk is already been pretty much proven not to be a draw. Some would say that it's not his fault and there's a lot of merit in that, but you know, Jeff Hardy was pushed like shit too and he managed to overcome all shitty booking to become a pretty huge draw before going to TNA. Maybe this time next year CM Punk will be in a similar position, but I doubt it.

[GardenStateSaint]

Its now going to be Punk vs. Ziggler at The Rumble for the title. I'm pretty sure SOMEONE out there will be "paying" to see that match on PPV. #justsayin'.

The Rumble is the main draw for that PPV. That's why usually guys like Ziggler (last year against Edge) and Hardcore Holly (against Brock back in '04) get big title matches on the show.

Remember when Goldberg vs. Rock happened at Backlash 2003? Everybody remembers that but kinda forgets Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena for the WWE Championship. People seem to forget that but thats another example of having a top drawing main event and a WWE Championship match that isn't nearly as top tier.

[syxxpakk]

Yep, exactly.

I think a lot of people want CM Punk to be more than he is, but he isn't that. Which is a complete shame, because he's probably been the most engrossing character on WWE TV in 2011.

[Hammond Eggar]

Its now going to be Punk vs. Ziggler at The Rumble for the title. I'm pretty sure SOMEONE out there will be "paying" to see that match on PPV. #justsayin'.

The Rumble is the main draw for that PPV. That's why usually guys like Ziggler (last year against Edge) and Hardcore Holly (against Brock back in '04) get big title matches on the show.

But you're right, there will be a small number of fans who will buy it to see CM Punk vs. Dolph Ziggler. It's not going to be a make or break number, though. Punk is already been pretty much proven not to be a draw. Some would say that it's not his fault and there's a lot of merit in that, but you know, Jeff Hardy was pushed like shit too and he managed to overcome all shitty booking to become a pretty huge draw before going to TNA. Maybe this time next year CM Punk will be in a similar position, but I doubt it.

Punk/Ziggler isn't the money match per say, but it will be fantastic.

[syxxpakk]

Its now going to be Punk vs. Ziggler at The Rumble for the title. I'm pretty sure SOMEONE out there will be "paying" to see that match on PPV. #justsayin'.

The Rumble is the main draw for that PPV. That's why usually guys like Ziggler (last year against Edge) and Hardcore Holly (against Brock back in '04) get big title matches on the show.

But you're right, there will be a small number of fans who will buy it to see CM Punk vs. Dolph Ziggler. It's not going to be a make or break number, though. Punk is already been pretty much proven not to be a draw. Some would say that it's not his fault and there's a lot of merit in that, but you know, Jeff Hardy was pushed like shit too and he managed to overcome all shitty booking to become a pretty huge draw before going to TNA. Maybe this time next year CM Punk will be in a similar position, but I doubt it.

Punk/Ziggler isn't the money match per say, but it will be fantastic.

Oh, absolutely. You'll get no argument from me there!

[Hammond Eggar]

Give it 20mins and I'm sure it's going to be an early MOTYC.

[Deadpool]

Pretty average episode of Raw, though Punk/Ziggler & Jericho's trolling were pretty awesome.

[JSWO]

Yep, exactly.

I think a lot of people want CM Punk to be more than he is, but he isn't that. Which is a complete shame, because he's probably been the most engrossing character on WWE TV in 2011.

10000% correct. Yet his legs got cut out from him because of politics. Yet another reason WWE will never be what it used to when they produced compelling television to the general population compared to what they do now by producing it aimed at children and marks.

But, again, even if they did - fans aren't going to spend money on Ziggler or Punk.

That's where a quality team of wrestling bookers come in, you know the concept WWE ignored for D-List Hollywood writers? You book guys in the proper manner, they draw money. Instead big matches are given away for free on tv, and PPV is as dead a concept as DVD's in the indy realm.

Pretty average episode of Raw, though Punk/Ziggler & Jericho's trolling were pretty awesome.

Also, JSWO, you are the most pathetic troll I've seen in my life. At least do it with some subtlety, not this "u r all wWE SHEEP, lmao!!!111!" crap.

Yup, you got me I'm a troll. LOL.

[syxxpakk]

The problem with your thinking though is that if someone is truly connecting with fans, regardless of the writing they will draw.

Edge did it. Jeff Hardy did it. CM Punk is not doing it.

[JSWO]

The problem with your thinking though is that if someone is truly connecting with fans, regardless of the writing they will draw.

Edge did it. Jeff Hardy did it. CM Punk is not doing it.

You don't think Punk is legitimately connecting with fans? You've got to be kidding me.

[FairPlay]

Talking about drawing fans, money, and whatnot...

Edge did it. Jeff Hardy did it. CM Punk is not doing it.

Out of the three names you listed there, Punk's the one I "connect" with the most. He seems the most real to me and being real and being able to relate to a guy is what "draws" me to like them (that and actually being talented in the ring). Edge didn't do sh*t for me...either did Hardy and IMO, they're WAY overrated. #justsayin'.

[Deadpool]

Pretty funny vid from WWE with Jericho.

[syxxpakk]

The problem with your thinking though is that if someone is truly connecting with fans, regardless of the writing they will draw.

Edge did it. Jeff Hardy did it. CM Punk is not doing it.

You don't think Punk is legitimately connecting with fans? You've got to be kidding me.

He gets great live reactions, but so far he's not meant a thing for buyrates and has, in some cases, been ratings-death (I'll have to look for it - but if I'm not mistaken he did a historically low qtr hour recently - that's on top of all the bad ratings he had in the summer). So far (and that's an important thing, because this isn't to say he won't ever draw - he's just not doing it now), he's not connecting where it counts. And the thing is, Edge and Jeff Hardy suffered the same poor writing but managed to get over and draw despite it.

Talking about drawing fans, money, and whatnot...

Edge did it. Jeff Hardy did it. CM Punk is not doing it.

Out of the three names you listed there, Punk's the one I "connect" with the most. He seems the most real to me and being real and being able to relate to a guy is what "draws" me to like them (that and actually being talented in the ring). Edge didn't do sh*t for me...either did Hardy and IMO, they're WAY overrated. #justsayin'.

Hey, you're preaching to the choir. I like CM Punk a hell of a lot more than Hardy or Edge (though Edge is pretty awesome). But I'm talking big picture here.

[syxxpakk]

Here's what I was talking about as far as ratings death:

The big story here was the main event. The overrun for the C.M. Punk & Zack Ryder & Daniel Bryan vs. Alberto Del Rio & The Miz & Dolph Ziggler match gained 59,000 viewers. That’s almost impossible given people tune in to see the following show, which basically meant wrestling fans must have been tuning out in droves (they were during the first half of the match but then started gaining at 11 p.m., but hardly gained anything). The main event did a 2.67 rating (2.55 for the first half of the match) which had to be, probably by far, the lowest rated main event on Raw of this year and maybe the lowest since 1997 for a non-holiday show in the regular time slot.

[JSWO]

Here's what I was talking about as far as ratings death:

The big story here was the main event. The overrun for the C.M. Punk & Zack Ryder & Daniel Bryan vs. Alberto Del Rio & The Miz & Dolph Ziggler match gained 59,000 viewers. That’s almost impossible given people tune in to see the following show, which basically meant wrestling fans must have been tuning out in droves (they were during the first half of the match but then started gaining at 11 p.m., but hardly gained anything). The main event did a 2.67 rating (2.55 for the first half of the match) which had to be, probably by far, the lowest rated main event on Raw of this year and maybe the lowest since 1997 for a non-holiday show in the regular time slot.

That's not a surprise when most of the show is garbage and fans see a main event full of guys they don't care about excluding Punk, and the football game got really crazy around that time frame. I'd be very interested to see the quarter hour from last night with Punk and Dolph.

[syxxpakk]

Here's what I was talking about as far as ratings death:

The big story here was the main event. The overrun for the C.M. Punk & Zack Ryder & Daniel Bryan vs. Alberto Del Rio & The Miz & Dolph Ziggler match gained 59,000 viewers. That’s almost impossible given people tune in to see the following show, which basically meant wrestling fans must have been tuning out in droves (they were during the first half of the match but then started gaining at 11 p.m., but hardly gained anything). The main event did a 2.67 rating (2.55 for the first half of the match) which had to be, probably by far, the lowest rated main event on Raw of this year and maybe the lowest since 1997 for a non-holiday show in the regular time slot.

That's not a surprise when most of the show is garbage and fans see a main event full of guys they don't care about excluding Punk, and the football game got really crazy around that time frame. I'd be very interested to see the quarter hour from last night with Punk and Dolph.

Well the ratings for Punk are normally not good, so it's a main event full of guys they don't care about including Punk. I mean, he's awesome, don't get me wrong. But he's not doing it.

[JSWO]

Well the ratings for Punk are normally not good, so it's a main event full of guys they don't care about including Punk. I mean, he's awesome, don't get me wrong. But he's not doing it.

Book the guy not to look like a goof and those ratings don't stay in the tank.

[syxxpakk]

Well the ratings for Punk are normally not good, so it's a main event full of guys they don't care about including Punk. I mean, he's awesome, don't get me wrong. But he's not doing it.

Book the guy not to look like a goof and those ratings don't stay in the tank.

They booked Edge and Hardy like goofs and they didn't have problems. That's what I'm saying. He's not clicking like they did.

[JSWO]

Well the ratings for Punk are normally not good, so it's a main event full of guys they don't care about including Punk. I mean, he's awesome, don't get me wrong. But he's not doing it.

Book the guy not to look like a goof and those ratings don't stay in the tank.

They booked Edge and Hardy like goofs and they didn't have problems. That's what I'm saying. He's not clicking like they did.

Honestly, Edge and Hardy had such uninteresting runs on top I don't remember anything either did.

[syxxpakk]

Probably the problem then. Jeff and Edge meant a pretty big deal as far as business went. Jeff in particular at one point was second only to Cena in the company and arguably at times above Cena briefly.

But anyway the point is they were booked like crap and still managed to click with the crowd to become big draws. CM Punk is booked like crap but can't seem to get through that like they did. He's just not going to be a draw on that level, it seems.